So even with todays technology it is not possible to find out the mysterious about the good MT Vernons and make an exact copy? Is it really like Harold say that even the new mouthpiece makers cant make their mouthpieces exact the same? So even Doug cant make two really twins? Or? I could understand it because there are really many variables to think about. What if you had a form and make the brass mass so hot it could float if you see what I mean. Then you could make an exact copy? (very bad English but..)
Leif
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
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ttf_savio
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ttf_Doug Elliott
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
One of the reasons it's so hard (or maybe impossible) to really copy an old mouthpiece is that the two ends of the mouthpiece are often not centered with each other. Drills and reamers don't always cut straight, so nothing lines up perfectly. You can't copy that imperfection that makes each one unique.
Most CNC-made mouthpieces would not have that issue.
Most CNC-made mouthpieces would not have that issue.
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ttf_GetzenBassPlayer
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Quote from: BassBoneFL on Apr 20, 2009, 03:10PMThe degree may be less but there IS a difference/variation. When a 1mm difference in rim size can encompass 2-4 mouthpiece models by a single maker and 0.015 inches separates tenor and bass trombone bores, small variations can make big differences.
If you read my post, I never said there wasn't a difference in dimensions, I said the differences are much less than they used to be. The fact that Ivan talked to me about his products needing to within a certain range implies that they all are not exactly the same. Ivan feels that the differences in his pieces to be so slight as not to be noticeable by the majority of those who buy his product.. Now how much these differences will matter to the player will, as most things, differ depending on the person playing the piece.
If you read my post, I never said there wasn't a difference in dimensions, I said the differences are much less than they used to be. The fact that Ivan talked to me about his products needing to within a certain range implies that they all are not exactly the same. Ivan feels that the differences in his pieces to be so slight as not to be noticeable by the majority of those who buy his product.. Now how much these differences will matter to the player will, as most things, differ depending on the person playing the piece.
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ttf_blast
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Whilst the creation of a clone seems to be impossible, there are people like Faxx who make cheap mouthpieces based on old examples, that often work very well indeed. What have Bach themselves lost since the Mt Vernon days ? They still have Bach's specs for each mouthpiece... indeed, I've heard that they still have old examples in store... and the latest stuff is said to be good... but different.
It may be quality control... perhaps all mouthpieces used to be checked by a player... though I doubt that... or another factor that we have all missed.... the metal perhaps ?
Sadly, there no longer seems to be anybody left who worked on Bach mouthpieces pre 1960, who can tell us what went on.
Several members here have talked about how Larry Minick made his mouthpieces, many of which have now achieved legendary status..
They have talked about the care in machining, especially the backbore.. also of how each mouthpiece was tweaked until it was how Minick wanted it to be... and how any that didn't work out were scrapped. He was not making Mt Vernon copies.. but he did start out from Bach's design for the 1 1/2G and developed it in ways that he wanted. His mouthpieces varied so much that each should be considered unique... so they might be wonderful in the right hands... if you can find one... and then, the right one for you... they are no solution for the player looking for a great off-the-shelf mouthpiece today.
'
There are great mouthpieces being made today by people like Greg Black and our own Doug Elliott... mouthpieces that today's top players get great results from.... but if you want that Mt Vernon Bach sound...there's only one way to get it.
Chris Stearn
It may be quality control... perhaps all mouthpieces used to be checked by a player... though I doubt that... or another factor that we have all missed.... the metal perhaps ?
Sadly, there no longer seems to be anybody left who worked on Bach mouthpieces pre 1960, who can tell us what went on.
Several members here have talked about how Larry Minick made his mouthpieces, many of which have now achieved legendary status..
They have talked about the care in machining, especially the backbore.. also of how each mouthpiece was tweaked until it was how Minick wanted it to be... and how any that didn't work out were scrapped. He was not making Mt Vernon copies.. but he did start out from Bach's design for the 1 1/2G and developed it in ways that he wanted. His mouthpieces varied so much that each should be considered unique... so they might be wonderful in the right hands... if you can find one... and then, the right one for you... they are no solution for the player looking for a great off-the-shelf mouthpiece today.
'
There are great mouthpieces being made today by people like Greg Black and our own Doug Elliott... mouthpieces that today's top players get great results from.... but if you want that Mt Vernon Bach sound...there's only one way to get it.
Chris Stearn
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ttf_BassBoneFL
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
I think the main difference between old and new Bach is simply QUANTITY. If one assumes the number of mouthpieces being produced corresponds proportionally with trombone production numbers, in the NY/MV days Bach made only a couple hundred horns a year. By the time the '80s and '90's hit in Elkhart, Bach was producing horns in multiple thousands per year. While there may have been a financial economy of scale, there was probably a sacrifice in the "n-th" degree of quality.
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ttf_BassBoneFL
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Quote from: GetzenBassPlayer on Apr 20, 2009, 11:16PMIf you read my post, I never said there wasn't a difference in dimensions, I said the differences are much less than they used to be.
If you read MY post, I never said you did
... I was elaborating on your statement.
If you read MY post, I never said you did
... I was elaborating on your statement.-
ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
I was playing in a Concert Band yesterday and the bass trombone player was interested in my MT Vernon 1 1/2g. He never heard about it before but told they maybe had one in their instrument room. It was not a MT Vernon but a very old Bach Corp. 2g. We tried it and it did feel surprisingly good. The sound was interesting. There are not so much talk about the 2g but how do you people look at this size? For me it felt better than most 1 1/2g I have tried. Not as good as the MT Vernon but better than the other 1 1/2g I have tried. The another bass player had a nearly new Bach 1 1/2g but he did change to this. It was just better no doubt.
Another question: Is it so that there is impossible to make an exactly copy of a mouthpiece? And with exactly I mean exactly.
Leif
Another question: Is it so that there is impossible to make an exactly copy of a mouthpiece? And with exactly I mean exactly.
Leif
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ttf_Slidennis
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
I think that you can carve the same shape, but then you have the buffing and the plating...
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ttf_blast
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Quote from: savio on Apr 27, 2009, 12:50AMI was playing in a Concert Band yesterday and the bass trombone player was interested in my MT Vernon 1 1/2g. He never heard about it before but told they maybe had one in their instrument room. It was not a MT Vernon but a very old Bach Corp. 2g. We tried it and it did feel surprisingly good. The sound was interesting. There are not so much talk about the 2g but how do you people look at this size? For me it felt better than most 1 1/2g I have tried. Not as good as the MT Vernon but better than the other 1 1/2g I have tried. The another bass player had a nearly new Bach 1 1/2g but he did change to this. It was just better no doubt.
Another question: Is it so that there is impossible to make an exactly copy of a mouthpiece? And with exactly I mean exactly.
Leif
Back when I was learning to play bass trombone the Bach 2G was the no 1 choice amongst London players. If you can work with the size they are great sounding mouthpieces... Bob Hughes always used one and Keith McNichol still does. I think Christian Jones does as well... all players with exceptional sounds. I have never been able to live with that rim size... it hits a ridge on my teeth, but it's a great mouthpiece. It seems to sit outside the normal Bach size progression so I suspect that it was originally a version of an established player's mouthpiece.. who knows ?
Chris Stearn
Another question: Is it so that there is impossible to make an exactly copy of a mouthpiece? And with exactly I mean exactly.
Leif
Back when I was learning to play bass trombone the Bach 2G was the no 1 choice amongst London players. If you can work with the size they are great sounding mouthpieces... Bob Hughes always used one and Keith McNichol still does. I think Christian Jones does as well... all players with exceptional sounds. I have never been able to live with that rim size... it hits a ridge on my teeth, but it's a great mouthpiece. It seems to sit outside the normal Bach size progression so I suspect that it was originally a version of an established player's mouthpiece.. who knows ?
Chris Stearn
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ttf_tbarh
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
....and don`t forget Raymond Premru who played a modified one! 
i seem to remember that I have read somewhere that the 2G was a downsized 1 1/2G which was made to better fit the Bach 45B (which again is a downsized 50B) ! Strange then that I have never come across a 1 1/2G NEW YORK , while i have seen a acouple of 2G NEW YORK on ebay... I suppose that the 1 1/2G simply were considered to large in the NEW YORK days..I have also read that the G stands for "Gerhardt", who was the bass trombone player in the Philadelphia orchestra and developed the 1 1/2G with V.Bach, meaning that the 2 and down to 5G`s are all based on the 1 1/2G.. Could be speculations of course..
Leif, it seems that You have no problems using a 2G rim size?.... Then You should be happy that You did not try the 2G Mount vernon that I sold to Alf Otto (nopos ) , which in my opinion was maybe a tad better than the 1 1/2g MV i sold to You.That could have been aggravating for You.. Unfortunately for me, I can not cope with these rim sizes either.. 
. . I am actually dreaming of a 1 1/2g sized version of the Laskey 85md with the 85md rim size.... Is that so much to ask for ??
Trond
i seem to remember that I have read somewhere that the 2G was a downsized 1 1/2G which was made to better fit the Bach 45B (which again is a downsized 50B) ! Strange then that I have never come across a 1 1/2G NEW YORK , while i have seen a acouple of 2G NEW YORK on ebay... I suppose that the 1 1/2G simply were considered to large in the NEW YORK days..I have also read that the G stands for "Gerhardt", who was the bass trombone player in the Philadelphia orchestra and developed the 1 1/2G with V.Bach, meaning that the 2 and down to 5G`s are all based on the 1 1/2G.. Could be speculations of course..
Leif, it seems that You have no problems using a 2G rim size?.... Then You should be happy that You did not try the 2G Mount vernon that I sold to Alf Otto (nopos ) , which in my opinion was maybe a tad better than the 1 1/2g MV i sold to You.That could have been aggravating for You
.. Unfortunately for me, I can not cope with these rim sizes either.. . . I am actually dreaming of a 1 1/2g sized version of the Laskey 85md with the 85md rim size.... Is that so much to ask for ?? Trond
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ttf_nopos
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Leif
Looks like Trond beat me to it, but as he said I tried both his Mt. Vernons and preferred the 2G. I felt that it was slightly more even across the registers and that the more compact sound worked best with my favourite Holton.
The 2G is also also the best piece bar non I have used with the Yamaha620G(like yours).
I sold the Yamaha last week to a forum member brought with him a Bach 2G when testing the horn. Great sound. Much better than the Yamaha 58 that came with the horn. I then offered him to try some of my collection of custom pieces. Into the horn went a Greg Black 2G, Griego 2 and a Ferguson V. All great pieces but none worked as well as his Bach 2G. Then I let him try the MV 2G and everything improved. No visible difference between the mouthpieces - just the MV magic
Looks like Trond beat me to it, but as he said I tried both his Mt. Vernons and preferred the 2G. I felt that it was slightly more even across the registers and that the more compact sound worked best with my favourite Holton.
The 2G is also also the best piece bar non I have used with the Yamaha620G(like yours).
I sold the Yamaha last week to a forum member brought with him a Bach 2G when testing the horn. Great sound. Much better than the Yamaha 58 that came with the horn. I then offered him to try some of my collection of custom pieces. Into the horn went a Greg Black 2G, Griego 2 and a Ferguson V. All great pieces but none worked as well as his Bach 2G. Then I let him try the MV 2G and everything improved. No visible difference between the mouthpieces - just the MV magic
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ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Yes Alf the 2g was fine. So I believe all this fine players mention above obvious was in their right mind too. It was fine with the bass players horn in the Concert Band too. It was a Bach horn not sure about the number but one trigger and the same bell size as mine. 9 1/2 inch I believe? Anyway he also liked it and decided to use it. I think it was a good choice for him.
I have a theory about the magic of the MT Vernon. Its about the same as Harold wrote. The mouthpiece makers did know how to make the proportions between rim, cup and backbore. Even if the rim was different or cup was different they did know how to make the rest of mouthpiece work in relation to rim design or cup design or backbore. Many variables but they did know the relationship between this variables. Therefore all was good and works. Different because they made it for different people?
When they started to mass produce this relationship between the variables was gone. The machine did decide not the mouthpiece makers.
Just a theory but?
Leif
I have a theory about the magic of the MT Vernon. Its about the same as Harold wrote. The mouthpiece makers did know how to make the proportions between rim, cup and backbore. Even if the rim was different or cup was different they did know how to make the rest of mouthpiece work in relation to rim design or cup design or backbore. Many variables but they did know the relationship between this variables. Therefore all was good and works. Different because they made it for different people?
When they started to mass produce this relationship between the variables was gone. The machine did decide not the mouthpiece makers.
Just a theory but?
Leif
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ttf_JimR
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
I have an older Bach 2G that I got from DJ when I got an old Conn 72H. I still love that mouthpiece, even though I have tried others (Rath, DE, FAXX). DJ had sent along about 4 other pieces to try, I kept the 2G and sent the others back.
The sound I can get with the 2G on both the 72H and a GenII 62HI is more controlled and has more core then on any other mouthpiece I have used (at least for me). It is suprisingly open also in the valve register and pedal register. It provides a uniform "blow" and feel throughout the peddle, trigger, low, mid and higher registers. It also responds well on the double trigger notes on the 62HI.
I really like the 2G and am currently using it - in fact I go back to it on "money gigs" as it is the most responsive and I am the most secure on it. However, I do think all of this is so very much dependent on the person, the person's sound concept and playing experience that I am not sure others would have the same experience but it works for me.
All I can say is I am very glad I tried a 2G and I do like it. I am glad I didn't just reject it up front as "too small" w/o checking it out - that would have been my loss. It is a pretty old mouthpiece, at least from the looks of it (maybe DJ knows how old), but it is not a NEW YORK or MT VERNON. Not sure what a shiny new one would blow like or if it is any different.
Bottom line? Try it, you may be surprised - I was.
Jim
The sound I can get with the 2G on both the 72H and a GenII 62HI is more controlled and has more core then on any other mouthpiece I have used (at least for me). It is suprisingly open also in the valve register and pedal register. It provides a uniform "blow" and feel throughout the peddle, trigger, low, mid and higher registers. It also responds well on the double trigger notes on the 62HI.
I really like the 2G and am currently using it - in fact I go back to it on "money gigs" as it is the most responsive and I am the most secure on it. However, I do think all of this is so very much dependent on the person, the person's sound concept and playing experience that I am not sure others would have the same experience but it works for me.
All I can say is I am very glad I tried a 2G and I do like it. I am glad I didn't just reject it up front as "too small" w/o checking it out - that would have been my loss. It is a pretty old mouthpiece, at least from the looks of it (maybe DJ knows how old), but it is not a NEW YORK or MT VERNON. Not sure what a shiny new one would blow like or if it is any different.
Bottom line? Try it, you may be surprised - I was.
Jim
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ttf_Joe Stanko
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Hi Jim - and all; this page on The Bach Loyalist (scroll down to the bottom) is helpful in indicating the vintage of any given Bach mouthpiece -
http://www.bachloyalist.com/mouthpiece/mouthpieces_variations.htm
Trond, I have a New York Bach 1 1/2G - it's the only one I've ever seen. It's quite similar to my Mt. Vernon 1 1/2G in that it has more area on the outside below the rim. I have two Mt. Vernon 2G's which have less area below the rim. I have arbitrarily defined these as "early" and "late" versions; older having a thicker outside rim, and late having a thinner outside rim. I will line them up and take some photos.
I have seen both variations in the 1 1/2G, but only the "later" in the 2G. I also had an early Elkhart 1 1/2G's with the 1 1/2G stamped exactly like my Mt. Vernon - this would be a mid-to late 60's version as best I can tell. We know Mr. Bach was quite frugal, and that everything was moved from Mt. Vernon to Elkhart - likely including trash cans, ferrules, and probably whatever else wasn't nailed down. And, that many parts were made in Mt. Vernon and then assembled in Elkhart. I had a very early Elkhart 50B2 that was - in my opinion - assembled from Mt. Vernon parts. Perhaps there were mouthpieces made but not engraved until in Elkhart?
Greg Black recently copied my Mt. Vernon 2G and 1 1/2G mouthpieces - perhaps we should all email him to ask him to run off a few.
As a long time fan of Ray Premru, perhaps we should start another topic - Who in their right mind plays a Bach 2G!
Joe Stanko
http://www.bachloyalist.com/mouthpiece/mouthpieces_variations.htm
Trond, I have a New York Bach 1 1/2G - it's the only one I've ever seen. It's quite similar to my Mt. Vernon 1 1/2G in that it has more area on the outside below the rim. I have two Mt. Vernon 2G's which have less area below the rim. I have arbitrarily defined these as "early" and "late" versions; older having a thicker outside rim, and late having a thinner outside rim. I will line them up and take some photos.
I have seen both variations in the 1 1/2G, but only the "later" in the 2G. I also had an early Elkhart 1 1/2G's with the 1 1/2G stamped exactly like my Mt. Vernon - this would be a mid-to late 60's version as best I can tell. We know Mr. Bach was quite frugal, and that everything was moved from Mt. Vernon to Elkhart - likely including trash cans, ferrules, and probably whatever else wasn't nailed down. And, that many parts were made in Mt. Vernon and then assembled in Elkhart. I had a very early Elkhart 50B2 that was - in my opinion - assembled from Mt. Vernon parts. Perhaps there were mouthpieces made but not engraved until in Elkhart?
Greg Black recently copied my Mt. Vernon 2G and 1 1/2G mouthpieces - perhaps we should all email him to ask him to run off a few.
As a long time fan of Ray Premru, perhaps we should start another topic - Who in their right mind plays a Bach 2G!
Joe Stanko
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ttf_blast
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Thanks for putting that information out there Joe....
You know that I was well aware of your New York 1 1/2G but I didn't want to mention it myself.
I have seen an early type Mt Vernon 2G.... I would also say that there was a transitional type, halfway between the heavy outer and the late style. The 2G that Bob Hughes has is a heavy body with three screw rims... factory made.
Chris Stearn
You know that I was well aware of your New York 1 1/2G but I didn't want to mention it myself.
I have seen an early type Mt Vernon 2G.... I would also say that there was a transitional type, halfway between the heavy outer and the late style. The 2G that Bob Hughes has is a heavy body with three screw rims... factory made.
Chris Stearn
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ttf_tbarh
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Joe!., thats interesting ! 
..Any differences in the the way they play ? The extra mass must surely do something with the sound.. Leifs MV was very lightweight with a big throat which made a lot of the higher overtones (ditto the Laskey i currently plays) very pronounced.. My 2G (which i sold to nopos ) was slightly darker in that respect.. About the Greg Black copies; i guess he has kept the templates so it would be available to buy from him dont You think?
Trond
..Any differences in the the way they play ? The extra mass must surely do something with the sound.. Leifs MV was very lightweight with a big throat which made a lot of the higher overtones (ditto the Laskey i currently plays) very pronounced.. My 2G (which i sold to nopos ) was slightly darker in that respect.. About the Greg Black copies; i guess he has kept the templates so it would be available to buy from him dont You think?Trond
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ttf_MT Vernon 45
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Hello. I have two MT.V 2G (one small shank) from 1960 and one MT.V 1 1/2G mid-60´s.
The large shank 2G is heavy and the 1 1/2 G lightweight and larger backbore.
Plays quite different. Both large shanks has the odd taper (morse?)
Which brand were they made for? Or was it a hybridshank that was able to be used in different brands?
They can be used in Conn Remington and standard Bach but with some wobbling.
I have also a New York 4 1/2 that has Remington shank and a MT.V 4G with standard Bachshank.
Were those differences special order options?
Thanks, Niclas.
The large shank 2G is heavy and the 1 1/2 G lightweight and larger backbore.
Plays quite different. Both large shanks has the odd taper (morse?)
Which brand were they made for? Or was it a hybridshank that was able to be used in different brands?
They can be used in Conn Remington and standard Bach but with some wobbling.
I have also a New York 4 1/2 that has Remington shank and a MT.V 4G with standard Bachshank.
Were those differences special order options?
Thanks, Niclas.
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ttf_johngsteel
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
2G or not 2G, that is the question!
(sorry for the pun...)
well, not really...
(sorry for the pun...)
well, not really...
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ttf_BassBoneFL
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ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Harold what about this?
21bl or not 21bl, thats the question.....
.......... 
hehe.......sorry I had to....
The answear is 1 1/2g........of course....
(Even Shakespeare knew that)
Leif
21bl or not 21bl, thats the question.....
.......... hehe.......sorry I had to....
The answear is 1 1/2g........of course....
(Even Shakespeare knew that)Leif
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ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
I have been playing the MT Vernon 1 1/2g for a long time now and will give a short report.
The main difference to all other 1 1/2g size mouthpieces is in the sound. I can listen that from my practice recordings. And also when I pick up some of my other Bach mouthpieces. Cant describe the difference in sound but its more heavy and have more depth. All over and especially in the low register. The sound is in fact more even. When I go down its just getting bigger and broader. But also in the upper register. More even.
Playing feel is more secure. Slots better. Easier to play? Yes and no. I play much better on it because I feel secure and get the sound I love. Therefore it feels easier. I don't have to fight it to get my sound. I can relax and just play.
The main thing is in the sound. All I can say is if you find one and like it, never let it go. The MT Vernon feels in a way complete. Many others have many of the nice qualities but not all. Trond: Thanks for thinking on me when selling! I'm really glad you did. You could have let it go to many others. So many thanks!
And to all that are searching I know how difficult it is. But I think you should keep on and don't give up. I could have but would never be rally happy with the other mouthpieces I have. I know. The main thing is to sit down and think what sound concept you want. And when thinking back on my nearly 1 1/2 years journey I'm glad I didn't give up.
I know I should be careful making a glory to any mouthpiece. But I will do it whatever all you another great bass trombonist here say. For me this mouthpiece is the answear and for me it have a glory. So Trond, you are a kind man and you always have been. Thanks.
I know I have been using this tread a lot and hope its OK for you people. When it comes to who you should listen here I think its best to jump over some of mine frustrated posts and listen the people here with a more secure knowledge than mine. And thanks to all that tried to help me.
Now lets keep on with more interesting 1 1/2g talk.
Leif
The main difference to all other 1 1/2g size mouthpieces is in the sound. I can listen that from my practice recordings. And also when I pick up some of my other Bach mouthpieces. Cant describe the difference in sound but its more heavy and have more depth. All over and especially in the low register. The sound is in fact more even. When I go down its just getting bigger and broader. But also in the upper register. More even.
Playing feel is more secure. Slots better. Easier to play? Yes and no. I play much better on it because I feel secure and get the sound I love. Therefore it feels easier. I don't have to fight it to get my sound. I can relax and just play.
The main thing is in the sound. All I can say is if you find one and like it, never let it go. The MT Vernon feels in a way complete. Many others have many of the nice qualities but not all. Trond: Thanks for thinking on me when selling! I'm really glad you did. You could have let it go to many others. So many thanks!
And to all that are searching I know how difficult it is. But I think you should keep on and don't give up. I could have but would never be rally happy with the other mouthpieces I have. I know. The main thing is to sit down and think what sound concept you want. And when thinking back on my nearly 1 1/2 years journey I'm glad I didn't give up.
I know I should be careful making a glory to any mouthpiece. But I will do it whatever all you another great bass trombonist here say. For me this mouthpiece is the answear and for me it have a glory. So Trond, you are a kind man and you always have been. Thanks.
I know I have been using this tread a lot and hope its OK for you people. When it comes to who you should listen here I think its best to jump over some of mine frustrated posts and listen the people here with a more secure knowledge than mine. And thanks to all that tried to help me.
Now lets keep on with more interesting 1 1/2g talk.
Leif
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ttf_tbarh
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:53 am
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Hello , Leif !
Great that you still love it !!
I thought a great deal about it before selling it ! But I had a hunch that i could do better, and i was right !... The Laskey is still doing a good job, allthough i am now on a quest to find a large rim /smaller cup alternative...
Again; good luck with it!! Hope it will give You pleasures forever!!
Trond
Great that you still love it !!
I thought a great deal about it before selling it ! But I had a hunch that i could do better, and i was right !
... The Laskey is still doing a good job, allthough i am now on a quest to find a large rim /smaller cup alternative... Again; good luck with it!! Hope it will give You pleasures forever!!
Trond
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ttf_HouBassTrombone
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
I have taken a bit of a break from playing and I want to go back and see what I was missing with the 1 1/2G. Right now all I have is a UMI 1 1/2G. Is that the same as the Bach one? Or do I need to go out and buy a BACH 1 1/2G? Or maybe a Faxx... hmmm. Anyway I started on a 1 1/2G, went upwards to stupid big mouthpieces, went down to a Schilke 58 where I learned the most about my playing then went up to the Schlike 59/ Ferguson L size. I think I want to go back and try the "classic". As my band director in High School said: If you can not do it on a 1 1/2G then it doesn't need to be done.
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ttf_WaltTrombone
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
The Faxx 1.5G is a pretty good copy of a Mt. Vernon Bach, so I'd start there, as far as getting a new mouthpiece. Also cheaper than most new mouthpieces, bonus!
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ttf_HouBassTrombone
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Yea I am pretty sure I will stay on my Ferguson L. I just want to see what I sound like with a 1 1/2G. I think I just need a SLIGHTLY bigger mouthpiece because I am smaller.
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ttf_tbarh
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:53 am
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Quote from: HouBassTrombone on May 21, 2009, 04:53PMYea I am pretty sure I will stay on my Ferguson L. I just want to see what I sound like with a 1 1/2G. I think I just need a SLIGHTLY bigger mouthpiece because I am smaller.
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Huh ? ...Because Youre smaller??
Trond
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Huh ? ...Because Youre smaller??
Trond
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ttf_HouBassTrombone
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
I am under the impression that the sound quality of low notes comes from being able to make the capacity of your lower larger. So my idea is that to compensate for the fact that I am smaller (only 5'6) is to play a slightly larger mouthpiece.(insert tasteless joke here) It opened my range up quite a bit and also strengthened my high range. I had trouble getting my jaw to open up enough for a good full sound for years and now that I have it that way I it is easier to get the quality of sound I want with a SLIGHTLY larger piece. Maybe I am totally wrong in all my assumptions but it seems to work for me.
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ttf_bonesmarsh
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Allen Ostrander of the NY Phil was about 5'6" and very slight. BB McCullogh was a little person. Many many excellent--- jaw droppingly amazing-- female bass trombonists choose to play the bass trombone at first for a simple reason......when you start playing as a young person you may have shorter arms.
The addition of one or two valves on a brass instrument may facilitate more range and ease of slide technique because you don't have to rely on an unreachable 6th and 7th position.
One of my personal friends was the first to have a prototype Thayer valve installed on a .525 Yamaha, as an experiment in that size horn with a Thayer valve. She couldn't reach 6th.
Your physical size has absolutely no relationship on your sound. If it did then there would be a plethora of short piccolo trumpet players. You can bet that trumpet players would be THE FIRST to work any angle to get an advantage over the competition.
My own personal Darwinian theory-- so, why do you see so many 6' plus men playing orchestral tenor and bass trombone. A simple explanation. When they begin their studies they are the only kids in the classroom large enough to carry the case home, and their size makes it less painful to hold the horn, so they continue to play, when a shorter player may be tempted to give up because the horn is just too large for their body at age 11 or 12.
*****
Mandatory 1 1/2G content. Why do MV mouthpieces possess so much magic?? Because they were made of a different alloy. Not yellow brass. They were made of Bach GOLD brass. When someone begins to make mouthpieces in Bach GOLD brass again you'll have more "magic" mouthpieces. More of the right harmonics etc. etc. get their start at the beginning of the horn when you use a MV mouthpiece because there is more right vibrations getting their start even before the air hits the leadpipe.
Doubt it?? Then why do/did Yamaha offer SOLID STERLING SILVER in certain stock sizes. Not for cosmetic reasons. It looks silver. It must be for THE SOUND. Why do the boutique makers offer sterling silver leadpipes? Same reason.
Bach gold brass baby. Dats da secret.
The addition of one or two valves on a brass instrument may facilitate more range and ease of slide technique because you don't have to rely on an unreachable 6th and 7th position.
One of my personal friends was the first to have a prototype Thayer valve installed on a .525 Yamaha, as an experiment in that size horn with a Thayer valve. She couldn't reach 6th.
Your physical size has absolutely no relationship on your sound. If it did then there would be a plethora of short piccolo trumpet players. You can bet that trumpet players would be THE FIRST to work any angle to get an advantage over the competition.
My own personal Darwinian theory-- so, why do you see so many 6' plus men playing orchestral tenor and bass trombone. A simple explanation. When they begin their studies they are the only kids in the classroom large enough to carry the case home, and their size makes it less painful to hold the horn, so they continue to play, when a shorter player may be tempted to give up because the horn is just too large for their body at age 11 or 12.
*****
Mandatory 1 1/2G content. Why do MV mouthpieces possess so much magic?? Because they were made of a different alloy. Not yellow brass. They were made of Bach GOLD brass. When someone begins to make mouthpieces in Bach GOLD brass again you'll have more "magic" mouthpieces. More of the right harmonics etc. etc. get their start at the beginning of the horn when you use a MV mouthpiece because there is more right vibrations getting their start even before the air hits the leadpipe.
Doubt it?? Then why do/did Yamaha offer SOLID STERLING SILVER in certain stock sizes. Not for cosmetic reasons. It looks silver. It must be for THE SOUND. Why do the boutique makers offer sterling silver leadpipes? Same reason.
Bach gold brass baby. Dats da secret.
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ttf_blast
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:15 pm
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Quote from: HouBassTrombone on May 22, 2009, 02:01AMI am under the impression that the sound quality of low notes comes from being able to make the capacity of your lower larger. So my idea is that to compensate for the fact that I am smaller (only 5'6) is to play a slightly larger mouthpiece.(insert tasteless joke here) It opened my range up quite a bit and also strengthened my high range. I had trouble getting my jaw to open up enough for a good full sound for years and now that I have it that way I it is easier to get the quality of sound I want with a SLIGHTLY larger piece. Maybe I am totally wrong in all my assumptions but it seems to work for me.
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If all your results, high and low, improved with the bigger mouthpiece it would seem a good choice... and that's coming from me !!
Chris Stearn
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If all your results, high and low, improved with the bigger mouthpiece it would seem a good choice... and that's coming from me !!
Chris Stearn
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ttf_bachbone
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:26 pm
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Quote from: blast on May 22, 2009, 06:18AMIf all your results, high and low, improved with the bigger mouthpiece it would seem a good choice... and that's coming from me !!
Chris Stearn
I had the chance to talk with Charlie Vernon and he said that himself and his students play on mouthpieces bigger than the 1 1/2G for bass trombone.
My question is: How much bigger can someone get? I play on a 1 1/2G and I have no problem with it. Just takes getting used to and breath support.
Chris Stearn
I had the chance to talk with Charlie Vernon and he said that himself and his students play on mouthpieces bigger than the 1 1/2G for bass trombone.
My question is: How much bigger can someone get? I play on a 1 1/2G and I have no problem with it. Just takes getting used to and breath support.
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ttf_svenlarsson
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:35 pm
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Bachbone, some players can really get bigger!
I have a good friend, a colleague (even though he play the basstrombone )
That sound really good on pieces bigger the 1G, he prefer rims with of 30mm!
He really plays those giant pieces!
He is a big tall fellow.
I have a good friend, a colleague (even though he play the basstrombone
)That sound really good on pieces bigger the 1G, he prefer rims with of 30mm!
He really plays those giant pieces!
He is a big tall fellow.
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ttf_anonymous
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:09 pm
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
I always approach choosing a mouthpiece with the "if the shoe fits" philosophy. New or vintage gear... I don't really care. Will it do the work? That's what's right for me. I play on a Getzen 1062FDR that gave me headaches with it's somewhat inferior mechanical features. After working at solving some problems with a good technician, that trombone became sweet... Now, after five years of playing on it, I know players that are playing great expensive custom or boutique gear that can't get the sweet tone I get with my 1062... Same with mouthpieces. I have tried in the past some of the vintage Bach pieces. It simply didn't work for me. Now, I'm playing on copy of a Minnick design and works fine so far (very recent piece of gear)... but would it for you? Who knows?
I was told once by one of my teachers: "Go with the feeling and trust your ears... " To me this is what counts when choosing a mouthpiece or any other piece of gear. Mt Vernon or NYC Bach's, original Minnicks, sweet boutique stuff from custom designers, signature models or just plain generic models from main manufacturers... whatever you choose... the sound you get is the answer. I still believe that the best questions I can ask myself are on my own playing. That may be because I still have to work hard on perfecting my art but in the end, what counts really is how I sound. Wich mouthpiece I use is a personnal and relevent issue but to a certain degree whathever piece I use, a vintage Bach 1.5 Mt Vernon, a Yamaha Doug Yeo or a Faxx generic 1.5...
I was told once by one of my teachers: "Go with the feeling and trust your ears... " To me this is what counts when choosing a mouthpiece or any other piece of gear. Mt Vernon or NYC Bach's, original Minnicks, sweet boutique stuff from custom designers, signature models or just plain generic models from main manufacturers... whatever you choose... the sound you get is the answer. I still believe that the best questions I can ask myself are on my own playing. That may be because I still have to work hard on perfecting my art but in the end, what counts really is how I sound. Wich mouthpiece I use is a personnal and relevent issue but to a certain degree whathever piece I use, a vintage Bach 1.5 Mt Vernon, a Yamaha Doug Yeo or a Faxx generic 1.5...
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ttf_MoominDave
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Quote from: svenlarsson on May 22, 2009, 09:26AMBachbone, some players can really get bigger!
I have a good friend, a colleague (even though he play the basstrombone )
That sound really good on pieces bigger the 1G, he prefer rims with of 30mm!
He really plays those giant pieces!
He is a big tall fellow.
There is a player I know who uses a 32mm rim Sometimes he sounds good - really rather good. Sometimes he doesn't. Think this must be the record?
I have a good friend, a colleague (even though he play the basstrombone
)That sound really good on pieces bigger the 1G, he prefer rims with of 30mm!
He really plays those giant pieces!
He is a big tall fellow.
There is a player I know who uses a 32mm rim
Sometimes he sounds good - really rather good. Sometimes he doesn't. Think this must be the record?-
ttf_HouBassTrombone
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
The largest mouthpiece that I have friends playing on is the Greigo .25. That is the proverbal toilet bowl. One of them (a woman smaller than I) sounds great on it while the other went from a Schilke 59 size to it and is still adjusting. I think he sounds like a tuba on a stick sometimes but he likes it and I know he has the capability to practice and make anything work. It isn't the equipment... it is the time spent on it. But at the same time I like wasting money on fun things to try because what else am I going to buy? Food? A GOOD car? Pfft a trombonist needs not these things!
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-Z
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ttf_savio
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Quote from: bonesmarsh on May 22, 2009, 05:22AMAllen Ostrander of the NY Phil was about 5'6" and very slight. BB McCullogh was a little person. Many many excellent--- jaw droppingly amazing-- female bass trombonists choose to play the bass trombone at first for a simple reason......when you start playing as a young person you may have shorter arms.
The addition of one or two valves on a brass instrument may facilitate more range and ease of slide technique because you don't have to rely on an unreachable 6th and 7th position.
One of my personal friends was the first to have a prototype Thayer valve installed on a .525 Yamaha, as an experiment in that size horn with a Thayer valve. She couldn't reach 6th.
Your physical size has absolutely no relationship on your sound. If it did then there would be a plethora of short piccolo trumpet players. You can bet that trumpet players would be THE FIRST to work any angle to get an advantage over the competition.
My own personal Darwinian theory-- so, why do you see so many 6' plus men playing orchestral tenor and bass trombone. A simple explanation. When they begin their studies they are the only kids in the classroom large enough to carry the case home, and their size makes it less painful to hold the horn, so they continue to play, when a shorter player may be tempted to give up because the horn is just too large for their body at age 11 or 12.
*****
Mandatory 1 1/2G content. Why do MV mouthpieces possess so much magic?? Because they were made of a different alloy. Not yellow brass. They were made of Bach GOLD brass. When someone begins to make mouthpieces in Bach GOLD brass again you'll have more "magic" mouthpieces. More of the right harmonics etc. etc. get their start at the beginning of the horn when you use a MV mouthpiece because there is more right vibrations getting their start even before the air hits the leadpipe.
Doubt it?? Then why do/did Yamaha offer SOLID STERLING SILVER in certain stock sizes. Not for cosmetic reasons. It looks silver. It must be for THE SOUND. Why do the boutique makers offer sterling silver leadpipes? Same reason.
Bach gold brass baby. Dats da secret.
I think you maybe is right. When I look at my newer Bach Mouthpieces, there is not so much difference. But when I play them the sound are very different on all of them. Something is common in the sound but still very different. The MT Vernon sound is more heavy, more warm, more projecting, bigger and more power. Its more of everything.
One other thing is the rim on my MT Vernon. It feels thicker? It support my lips better and that's a surprise for me. Anyway it just sit there and is very comfortable and gives a nice support. I did play in a noisy Concert Band today and I tried one of the another Bach´s. After just one minute I had to take it away. The first thing was it didn't project. I know it is because I'm not used to it but still...... I know that's not fair to try it like that.
Maybe it is the (gold) brass in the mouthpiece. I start to think you are right Bonemarsh. It have more Pound's (norwegian?) in the sound.
Anyway I did doubt Chris in the start of the tread when he told about the MT Vernon. Not any more. No doubt he and all the other MT Vernon users is right.
(bonesmarsh: The spell Check didnt like your english, but it was cool)
Leif
The addition of one or two valves on a brass instrument may facilitate more range and ease of slide technique because you don't have to rely on an unreachable 6th and 7th position.
One of my personal friends was the first to have a prototype Thayer valve installed on a .525 Yamaha, as an experiment in that size horn with a Thayer valve. She couldn't reach 6th.
Your physical size has absolutely no relationship on your sound. If it did then there would be a plethora of short piccolo trumpet players. You can bet that trumpet players would be THE FIRST to work any angle to get an advantage over the competition.
My own personal Darwinian theory-- so, why do you see so many 6' plus men playing orchestral tenor and bass trombone. A simple explanation. When they begin their studies they are the only kids in the classroom large enough to carry the case home, and their size makes it less painful to hold the horn, so they continue to play, when a shorter player may be tempted to give up because the horn is just too large for their body at age 11 or 12.
*****
Mandatory 1 1/2G content. Why do MV mouthpieces possess so much magic?? Because they were made of a different alloy. Not yellow brass. They were made of Bach GOLD brass. When someone begins to make mouthpieces in Bach GOLD brass again you'll have more "magic" mouthpieces. More of the right harmonics etc. etc. get their start at the beginning of the horn when you use a MV mouthpiece because there is more right vibrations getting their start even before the air hits the leadpipe.
Doubt it?? Then why do/did Yamaha offer SOLID STERLING SILVER in certain stock sizes. Not for cosmetic reasons. It looks silver. It must be for THE SOUND. Why do the boutique makers offer sterling silver leadpipes? Same reason.
Bach gold brass baby. Dats da secret.
I think you maybe is right. When I look at my newer Bach Mouthpieces, there is not so much difference. But when I play them the sound are very different on all of them. Something is common in the sound but still very different. The MT Vernon sound is more heavy, more warm, more projecting, bigger and more power. Its more of everything.
One other thing is the rim on my MT Vernon. It feels thicker? It support my lips better and that's a surprise for me. Anyway it just sit there and is very comfortable and gives a nice support. I did play in a noisy Concert Band today and I tried one of the another Bach´s. After just one minute I had to take it away. The first thing was it didn't project. I know it is because I'm not used to it but still...... I know that's not fair to try it like that.
Maybe it is the (gold) brass in the mouthpiece. I start to think you are right Bonemarsh. It have more Pound's (norwegian?) in the sound.
Anyway I did doubt Chris in the start of the tread when he told about the MT Vernon. Not any more. No doubt he and all the other MT Vernon users is right.
(bonesmarsh: The spell Check didnt like your english, but it was cool)
Leif
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ttf_GetzenBassPlayer
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
To add another log on the fire: Maybe the specific composition of allows that was used to make the brass used in Mt Vernon pieces is no longer available. Maybe it has all been used up like the trees that Stradivarius used to make his stringed instruments.
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ttf_bonesmarsh
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Its all part of the "lost arts".
Tuning in the slide is coming back.
Extra braces at the end of the slide to make the slide more acoustically correct when you're out in 7th position---same thing as the old TIS.
Newfangled leadpipes.
Different bracing on F-attachments.
Why not the alloy of the mouthpiece itself having a direct relation on the sound to start with? Guys are throwing thousands of dollars at new valves. How about the SIGNAL provided to the valves to start with, being considered in light of the alloy of the mouthpiece?
I had a Mt Vernon 11C that was so played out it was totally unplated. When cleaned up it was NOT brass coloured. It was Bach GOLD brass. A Friend bought an older Bach 16 horn. Bell was not regular brass. It was also GOLD brass, but not even designated as such. The batch of bells that made it onto the Bach 16's that day just had GOLD bells.
Tuning in the slide is coming back.
Extra braces at the end of the slide to make the slide more acoustically correct when you're out in 7th position---same thing as the old TIS.
Newfangled leadpipes.
Different bracing on F-attachments.
Why not the alloy of the mouthpiece itself having a direct relation on the sound to start with? Guys are throwing thousands of dollars at new valves. How about the SIGNAL provided to the valves to start with, being considered in light of the alloy of the mouthpiece?
I had a Mt Vernon 11C that was so played out it was totally unplated. When cleaned up it was NOT brass coloured. It was Bach GOLD brass. A Friend bought an older Bach 16 horn. Bell was not regular brass. It was also GOLD brass, but not even designated as such. The batch of bells that made it onto the Bach 16's that day just had GOLD bells.
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ttf_blast
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:15 pm
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
I don't know for sure about the alloy but I know that my Minick is made from something VERY soft. MV Bachs are a dark brass... and I have a pre 1918 Holton tuba mouthpiece that is bronze.. and plays like a dream. Unlike 300 year old wood, all the brasses are still available... just needs someone to think it's worth it.
Chris Stearn.
Chris Stearn.
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ttf_anonymous
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:09 pm
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Quote from: bonesmarsh on May 22, 2009, 05:22AMAllen Ostrander of the NY Phil was about 5'6" and very slight. BB McCullogh was a little person. Many many excellent--- jaw droppingly amazing-- female bass trombonists choose to play the bass trombone at first for a simple reason......when you start playing as a young person you may have shorter arms.
The addition of one or two valves on a brass instrument may facilitate more range and ease of slide technique because you don't have to rely on an unreachable 6th and 7th position.
One of my personal friends was the first to have a prototype Thayer valve installed on a .525 Yamaha, as an experiment in that size horn with a Thayer valve. She couldn't reach 6th.
Your physical size has absolutely no relationship on your sound. If it did then there would be a plethora of short piccolo trumpet players. You can bet that trumpet players would be THE FIRST to work any angle to get an advantage over the competition.
My own personal Darwinian theory-- so, why do you see so many 6' plus men playing orchestral tenor and bass trombone. A simple explanation. When they begin their studies they are the only kids in the classroom large enough to carry the case home, and their size makes it less painful to hold the horn, so they continue to play, when a shorter player may be tempted to give up because the horn is just too large for their body at age 11 or 12.
*****
Mandatory 1 1/2G content. Why do MV mouthpieces possess so much magic?? Because they were made of a different alloy. Not yellow brass. They were made of Bach GOLD brass. When someone begins to make mouthpieces in Bach GOLD brass again you'll have more "magic" mouthpieces. More of the right harmonics etc. etc. get their start at the beginning of the horn when you use a MV mouthpiece because there is more right vibrations getting their start even before the air hits the leadpipe.
Doubt it?? Then why do/did Yamaha offer SOLID STERLING SILVER in certain stock sizes. Not for cosmetic reasons. It looks silver. It must be for THE SOUND. Why do the boutique makers offer sterling silver leadpipes? Same reason.
Bach gold brass baby. Dats da secret.
Gold Brass? this is a first for me. Where did you get this info?
The addition of one or two valves on a brass instrument may facilitate more range and ease of slide technique because you don't have to rely on an unreachable 6th and 7th position.
One of my personal friends was the first to have a prototype Thayer valve installed on a .525 Yamaha, as an experiment in that size horn with a Thayer valve. She couldn't reach 6th.
Your physical size has absolutely no relationship on your sound. If it did then there would be a plethora of short piccolo trumpet players. You can bet that trumpet players would be THE FIRST to work any angle to get an advantage over the competition.
My own personal Darwinian theory-- so, why do you see so many 6' plus men playing orchestral tenor and bass trombone. A simple explanation. When they begin their studies they are the only kids in the classroom large enough to carry the case home, and their size makes it less painful to hold the horn, so they continue to play, when a shorter player may be tempted to give up because the horn is just too large for their body at age 11 or 12.
*****
Mandatory 1 1/2G content. Why do MV mouthpieces possess so much magic?? Because they were made of a different alloy. Not yellow brass. They were made of Bach GOLD brass. When someone begins to make mouthpieces in Bach GOLD brass again you'll have more "magic" mouthpieces. More of the right harmonics etc. etc. get their start at the beginning of the horn when you use a MV mouthpiece because there is more right vibrations getting their start even before the air hits the leadpipe.
Doubt it?? Then why do/did Yamaha offer SOLID STERLING SILVER in certain stock sizes. Not for cosmetic reasons. It looks silver. It must be for THE SOUND. Why do the boutique makers offer sterling silver leadpipes? Same reason.
Bach gold brass baby. Dats da secret.
Gold Brass? this is a first for me. Where did you get this info?
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ttf_poozer
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:00 pm
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
I do hope manufacturers start offering us the choice of yellow or red brass for our mouthpieces.
Then we can have frequent threads enquiring whether a yellow or red mouthpiece is better for orchestral playing. Will make a nice foil to the bell colour threads.
Then we can have frequent threads enquiring whether a yellow or red mouthpiece is better for orchestral playing. Will make a nice foil to the bell colour threads.
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ttf_Doug Elliott
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Quote from: poozer on May 25, 2009, 07:35AMI do hope manufacturers start offering us the choice of yellow or red brass for our mouthpieces.
Then we can have frequent threads enquiring whether a yellow or red mouthpiece is better for orchestral playing. Will make a nice foil to the bell colour threads.
Maybe with a window to the base metal so you can tell through the silverplating which it is?
Then we can have frequent threads enquiring whether a yellow or red mouthpiece is better for orchestral playing. Will make a nice foil to the bell colour threads.
Maybe with a window to the base metal so you can tell through the silverplating which it is?
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ttf_Dan Satterwhite
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- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 am
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
I think everyone with a Mt. Vernon 1 1/2 G should have it sawed in half so we can know the truth.
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ttf_anonymous
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:09 pm
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Quote from: Dan Satterwhite on May 25, 2009, 04:36PMI think everyone with a Mt. Vernon 1 1/2 G should have it sawed in half so we can know the truth.
I saw that one coming....
I saw that one coming....
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ttf_blast
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:15 pm
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Second Chance (Doug Hulme) has very kindly sent me one of the Swedish 1 1/2G copies. Very interesting mouthpiece. Very well made, very comfortable. The sound is dark but not as complex as a good Bach 1 1/2G and it slots slightly less well, but overall, a good mouthpiece. Comparing it to a Blessing 1 1/2G I found the two to be almost identical... so much so, that I am sure they were made by the same people... as a friend said, a Blessing in disguise
Chris Stearn
Chris Stearn
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ttf_savio
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
I believe I have found the secret of the MT Vernon mouthpieces. It must be the rim that makes that special sound. It looks like another Bach mouthpiece but feels thicker/wider (not in diameter) I'm sure it is the rim and entrance to the cup. This is because when I try my another Bach mouthpieces the rim is the big difference. It does not feel any easier to play but when I listen older practice recordings there are two main differences:
The sound. Its hard to explain but the sound is just much better in my ears. More heavy, more quality.
The second factor is the security. That was the big weakness of my another Bach mouthpieces. I nearly never have any bad attacks. Its right on the tone always. It doesent feel so much easier to play, but the result is another story. And since the main difference in feel is the rim, I say it is the rim that makes the secret. One of my other Bach mouthpieces is bigger, wider maybe not deeper, but the rim feels thin. The sound isn't bad in my ears but cant even go close to the MT Vernon. Its a smaller sound. And like it always did feel for me before: very insecure to play. That was not me but it was that bad mouthpiece. Mr. Bach did have a bad day when making it. Actually there are another mouthpieces in the market that reminds me more of the MT Vernon in sound. That's maybe not so strange since all try to copy the MT Vernon. Even Bach try with more or less luck.
So what do you think Chris and all you 1 1/2g trombone players? I'm sure it is the rim.
Leif
The sound. Its hard to explain but the sound is just much better in my ears. More heavy, more quality.
The second factor is the security. That was the big weakness of my another Bach mouthpieces. I nearly never have any bad attacks. Its right on the tone always. It doesent feel so much easier to play, but the result is another story. And since the main difference in feel is the rim, I say it is the rim that makes the secret. One of my other Bach mouthpieces is bigger, wider maybe not deeper, but the rim feels thin. The sound isn't bad in my ears but cant even go close to the MT Vernon. Its a smaller sound. And like it always did feel for me before: very insecure to play. That was not me but it was that bad mouthpiece. Mr. Bach did have a bad day when making it. Actually there are another mouthpieces in the market that reminds me more of the MT Vernon in sound. That's maybe not so strange since all try to copy the MT Vernon. Even Bach try with more or less luck.
So what do you think Chris and all you 1 1/2g trombone players? I'm sure it is the rim.
Leif
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ttf_anonymous
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Quote from: savio on Jun 24, 2009, 03:36PMI believe I have found the secret of the MT Vernon mouthpieces. It must be the rim that makes that special sound. It looks like another Bach mouthpiece but feels thicker/wider (not in diameter) I'm sure it is the rim and entrance to the cup. This is because when I try my another Bach mouthpieces the rim is the big difference. It does not feel any easier to play but when I listen older practice recordings there are two main differences:
The sound. Its hard to explain but the sound is just much better in my ears. More heavy, more quality.
The second factor is the security. That was the big weakness of my another Bach mouthpieces. I nearly never have any bad attacks. Its right on the tone always. It doesent feel so much easier to play, but the result is another story. And since the main difference in feel is the rim, I say it is the rim that makes the secret. One of my other Bach mouthpieces is bigger, wider maybe not deeper, but the rim feels thin. The sound isn't bad in my ears but cant even go close to the MT Vernon. Its a smaller sound. And like it always did feel for me before: very insecure to play. That was not me but it was that bad mouthpiece. Mr. Bach did have a bad day when making it. Actually there are another mouthpieces in the market that reminds me more of the MT Vernon in sound. That's maybe not so strange since all try to copy the MT Vernon. Even Bach try with more or less luck.
So what do you think Chris and all you 1 1/2g trombone players? I'm sure it is the rim.
Leif
It's part of it for sure. I have tried lots of mouthpieces in this size. Even played on some for as long as two years,then one day in a mild fit of curiosity,plug the Mt. Vernon in-and damn-I'm playing it again. The comfort factor is huge for sure. My latest daydream is to have an impression taken from my MV 1&1/2 G rim and have one of my(2) Rath 1&1/2's rim changed. I like the Rath in many ways,but not the rim(The regular,not the wide)For now,my MT V. is in the Horn.....
The sound. Its hard to explain but the sound is just much better in my ears. More heavy, more quality.
The second factor is the security. That was the big weakness of my another Bach mouthpieces. I nearly never have any bad attacks. Its right on the tone always. It doesent feel so much easier to play, but the result is another story. And since the main difference in feel is the rim, I say it is the rim that makes the secret. One of my other Bach mouthpieces is bigger, wider maybe not deeper, but the rim feels thin. The sound isn't bad in my ears but cant even go close to the MT Vernon. Its a smaller sound. And like it always did feel for me before: very insecure to play. That was not me but it was that bad mouthpiece. Mr. Bach did have a bad day when making it. Actually there are another mouthpieces in the market that reminds me more of the MT Vernon in sound. That's maybe not so strange since all try to copy the MT Vernon. Even Bach try with more or less luck.
So what do you think Chris and all you 1 1/2g trombone players? I'm sure it is the rim.
Leif
It's part of it for sure. I have tried lots of mouthpieces in this size. Even played on some for as long as two years,then one day in a mild fit of curiosity,plug the Mt. Vernon in-and damn-I'm playing it again. The comfort factor is huge for sure. My latest daydream is to have an impression taken from my MV 1&1/2 G rim and have one of my(2) Rath 1&1/2's rim changed. I like the Rath in many ways,but not the rim(The regular,not the wide)For now,my MT V. is in the Horn.....
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ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Quote from: Donward59 on Jun 24, 2009, 05:20PMIt's part of it for sure. I have tried lots of mouthpieces in this size. Even played on some for as long as two years,then one day in a mild fit of curiosity,plug the Mt. Vernon in-and damn-I'm playing it again. The comfort factor is huge for sure. My latest daydream is to have an impression taken from my MV 1&1/2 G rim and have one of my(2) Rath 1&1/2's rim changed. I like the Rath in many ways,but not the rim(The regular,not the wide)For now,my MT V. is in the Horn.....
Donward, the MT V. you call it (happy us), is definitely more complete than any other mouthpiece, but I would not say more easy. The strange thing is the result from it.
Shame on Satterwhite who wants to cut it in two pieces. That's a murder so be careful or we call the police.
OK I'm little sorry for being a little bad to all playing the bigger ones. Its of course the result that matter. And that will say the player behind is the clue. I cant make the product many other players do but I think I can make the best out of mine "soft machine" That's enough for me.
Cheers
Donward, the MT V. you call it (happy us
), is definitely more complete than any other mouthpiece, but I would not say more easy. The strange thing is the result from it. Shame on Satterwhite who wants to cut it in two pieces.
That's a murder so be careful or we call the police. OK I'm little sorry for being a little bad to all playing the bigger ones. Its of course the result that matter. And that will say the player behind is the clue. I cant make the product many other players do but I think I can make the best out of mine "soft machine" That's enough for me.
Cheers
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ttf_anonymous
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- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:09 pm
Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Hey-don't worry about Satterwhite-I've sat next to him and he sounds fine(Big stuff and all). Maybe that nice weather down in Florida is making him a little ornery(I've appreciated his latest posts).I'm sure he longs for this lousy weather up here in NYC.
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ttf_blast
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Yes, the rim is very important... one of the most important elements... but there's a lot more in the mix than that. Like the instrument, it's very much the sum of it's parts. I remember Bach saying something along the lines of 'the mouthpiece that feels best may not play the best'... a rim is part of a tool that connects player and instrument and gets the best out of both. Not an easy gig.
Chris Stearn
Chris Stearn
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ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??
Quote from: blast on Jun 25, 2009, 02:18PMYes, the rim is very important... one of the most important elements... but there's a lot more in the mix than that. Like the instrument, it's very much the sum of it's parts. I remember Bach saying something along the lines of 'the mouthpiece that feels best may not play the best'... a rim is part of a tool that connects player and instrument and gets the best out of both. Not an easy gig.
Chris Stearn
That's an interesting thought. I did always believe that what is most comfortable to play is the best. But I believe what Mr. Bach say is true. One thing is how it feels, another thing is what goes out the bell. Chris, when I try my best regular Bach it actually feels easier to play but the MT Vernon is complete different in sound. What I'm little afraid of is the sound is too diffuse on my MT Vernon.
I post two bordogni etudes with my Conn and my yamaha. I know its dangerous to do but remember its practice for me. Not made for performing. And rhythm is very bad, I know. Also intonation here and there is no good. But what I want to know is the sound. I have not played the Conn for a 2 weeks so I make it very comfortable not perfect. So don't listen for making something perfect but tell me if this sound is what you can get from a MT Vernon? But anyway since Im stupid enough to post them say what you think. Im a teacher anyway so I dont loose anything. The first link is my Yamaha, the second is my Conn. I tried the Additional options to upload it but did have some big problems. It doesnt work.
Leif
http://www.mediafire.com/?zmmizy0gnlc
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=d79b8206360f2c08d2db6fb9a8902bda
Chris Stearn
That's an interesting thought. I did always believe that what is most comfortable to play is the best. But I believe what Mr. Bach say is true. One thing is how it feels, another thing is what goes out the bell. Chris, when I try my best regular Bach it actually feels easier to play but the MT Vernon is complete different in sound. What I'm little afraid of is the sound is too diffuse on my MT Vernon.
I post two bordogni etudes with my Conn and my yamaha. I know its dangerous to do but remember its practice for me. Not made for performing. And rhythm is very bad, I know. Also intonation here and there is no good. But what I want to know is the sound. I have not played the Conn for a 2 weeks so I make it very comfortable not perfect. So don't listen for making something perfect but tell me if this sound is what you can get from a MT Vernon? But anyway since Im stupid enough to post them say what you think. Im a teacher anyway so I dont loose anything. The first link is my Yamaha, the second is my Conn. I tried the Additional options to upload it but did have some big problems. It doesnt work.
Leif
http://www.mediafire.com/?zmmizy0gnlc
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=d79b8206360f2c08d2db6fb9a8902bda