The note H

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ttf_SensitiveJohn
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The note H

Post by ttf_SensitiveJohn » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:38 pm

So I found out recently that there is a note called "H" used by some in German speaking areas.
ttf_BGuttman
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The note H

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:44 pm

I find it very useful in sharp keys.  Especially in H Dur. Image

But I don't plan it -- I play it.  Comes between C and Bb.
ttf_Posaunus
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The note H

Post by ttf_Posaunus » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:49 pm

You mean my tuning note? 
ttf_BGuttman
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The note H

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:59 pm

Quote from: Posaunus on Feb 07, 2017, 05:49PMYou mean my tuning note? 

Oh, you have a High Pitch trombone? Image
ttf_oslide
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The note H

Post by ttf_oslide » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:13 pm

This is taken from a Wiki article in German, translated by Google and tweaked a bit by me. I hope the special characters will still look right.

"In the Middle Ages, the first seven letters of the alphabet were sufficient to characterize the tone inventory used. At the latest in the eleventh century, Guido of Arezzo established a cleavage of the tone B in a higher ( b durum ) and a deeper variant ( b molle ), characterized by an angular ♮ ( b squaerum ) and round ♭ ( b rotundum ) shape of the letter b. From the b quadratum today's resolution sign and the cross emerged, from the b rotundum the displacement sign b .

Because of the optical similarity of the b squareum with the letter h and the subsequent use of the printing type h for the b squareum, in the 16th century in Germany, Scandinavia, and the Westslaw region the designation H for the 7th stage of the basic scale was used ( which since Zarlino (1571) commonly started with C )."
ttf_harrison.t.reed
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The note H

Post by ttf_harrison.t.reed » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:22 pm

I certainly can plan an H.
ttf_B0B
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The note H

Post by ttf_B0B » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:30 pm

I can plan an H, but what's the scale?

1" = 10'?
1" = 20'?
1" = 30'?
WWHWHWH ?


ttf_BGuttman
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The note H

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:34 pm

When I was in college taking Descriptive Geometry our prof used to tell us to plot an "H View".  We couldn't figure out what he was talking about.  He was Japanese, and with his accent, his "H View" was "Edge View".  Took us nearly to the end of the school year to figure that out. Image
ttf_Driving Park
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The note H

Post by ttf_Driving Park » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:47 pm

I voted "perhaps" because it was there.

I can plan an H, and it's usually followed by owever.
ttf_robcat2075
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The note H

Post by ttf_robcat2075 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:22 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Feb 07, 2017, 07:34PMWhen I was in college taking Descriptive Geometry our prof used to tell us to plot an "H View".  We couldn't figure out what he was talking about.  He was Japanese, and with his accent, his "H View" was "Edge View".  Took us nearly to the end of the school year to figure that out. Image

Geez, that reminds me of a geometry class I tried to take where the teacher (Chinese but from a southeast Asian country) kept going on about "the ahk" and "the ox".

Total chaos. The teacher spent the whole class facing the board as if we weren't there and the teen-somethings were all talking as if there was no teacher there.
ttf_Dombat
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The note H

Post by ttf_Dombat » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:48 pm

How else would we play shostakovich's signature (D, Es, C, H)?
 Image Image b Image Image Image


I had to get used to this working in Germany. It can get a little odd when you have international parts that have been corrected the "b" above a note and you have to work out if they mean "Bb" or "B natural/ H".

The German system uses "s" to signify flat and "is" to signify sharp.
C# is cis (spoken siss)
Eb is es (ess)
F## is fisis (fississ)
Ab is as (yep..)
Bb is however b and B is H.
B#? his (hiss)
Bbb was an argument we had at work the other day. My colleagues couldnt agree whether to call it Beses or Heses. Technically you could probably also say Bes but thag wiuld just confuse every one.

I think we ended up agreeing to call it beses amongst ourselves. There probably is a rule but we're trombonists, not musicologists.

<Edit: Fixed note>
ttf_davdud101
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The note H

Post by ttf_davdud101 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:04 am

If there is any one system I dislike and refuse to use, It's the European system that switched out B-natural for H.

HALLO!

H comes AFTER G!!!  Image
ttf_Exzaclee
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The note H

Post by ttf_Exzaclee » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:57 pm

I subbed for a Ukranian pianist once on a cruise ship. He had scribbled through all the chords with a B root and wrote H above them.

H∆7#11. - actually, it was a 7 with a slash through it, so i kept playing dominant chords and wincing (what the %#$%, that's not right!) and played a good deal of that gig by ear the first couple of days until I figured it out. (The 7 with a slash through it means major 7 for some freaking reason in the same part of the world where H is used.)

seriously.

All the cues for cuts and repeats were in cyrillic as well. Fortunately there were a few people on board who could help me translate.
ttf_BGuttman
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The note H

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:08 pm

Probably the only thing I like about using H is that it allowed Johann Sebastian Bach to spell his name in music (a famous fugue he wrote).  Otherwise I find it simply annoying.
ttf_Bcschipper
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The note H

Post by ttf_Bcschipper » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:13 pm

h makes a lot of sense. Just think of it as a neutral symbol (that's why it is called h).
ttf_robcat2075
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The note H

Post by ttf_robcat2075 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:14 pm

I guess we're fortunate they didn't continue that practice as they discovered more sharps and flats or we'd have things like a sonata in L major.
ttf_tbathras
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The note H

Post by ttf_tbathras » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:28 pm

Quote from: robcat2075 on Feb 09, 2017, 06:14PMI guess we're fortunate they didn't continue that practice as they discovered more sharps and flats or we'd have things like a sonata in L major.

I wouldn't mind if they had discovered fewer sharps.
ttf_BGuttman
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The note H

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:31 pm

Quote from: tbathras on Feb 09, 2017, 06:28PMI wouldn't mind if they had discovered fewer sharps.

And the alto saxophonists and Db piccolo players would prefer fewer flats... Image
ttf_tbathras
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The note H

Post by ttf_tbathras » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:45 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Feb 09, 2017, 06:31PMAnd the alto saxophonists and Db piccolo players would prefer fewer flats... Image

Pretty sure they don't count  Image
ttf_BGuttman
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The note H

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:48 pm

Quote from: tbathras on Feb 09, 2017, 06:45PMPretty sure they don't count  Image

No, they don't.  Always coming in early Image
ttf_Lou Natunze
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The note H

Post by ttf_Lou Natunze » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:57 pm

Quote from: Dombat on Feb 07, 2017, 11:48PMHow else would we play shostakovich's signature (D, Es, C, H)?
 Image Image b Image Image Image


I had to get used to this working in Germany. It can get a little odd when you have international parts that have been corrected the "b" above a note and you have to work out if they mean "Bb" or "B natural/ H".

The German system uses "s" to signify flat and "is" to signify sharp.
C# is cis (spoken siss)
Eb is es (ess)
F## is fisis (fississ)
Ab is as (yep..)
Bb is however b and B is H.
B#? his (hiss)
Bbb was an argument we had at work the other day. My colleagues couldnt agree whether to call it Beses or Heses. Technically you could probably also say Bes but thag wiuld just confuse every one.

I think we ended up agreeing to call it beses amongst ourselves. There probably is a rule but we're trombonists, not musicologists.

<Edit: Fixed note>

I say, when in Rome . . .



The German letter H is pronounced "ha".

I haven't yet located the plural form of "ha".

( Could it be "haen", "haer", or "hanner" ? )

But if I were to choose to use H, 
 
I would go with the correct German pluralization of Ha ! 

Or you could all be scamps, and refer to it as "Funny Music". 
 
(Ha, ha, ha, ha ! Oh,  I just can't stop laughing ! )


ttf_Lou Natunze
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The note H

Post by ttf_Lou Natunze » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:27 pm

Quote from: Posaunus on Feb 07, 2017, 05:49PMYou mean my tuning note? 

Did you have to file down your tuning slide quite a bit in order to be able to say that ?
ttf_Lou Natunze
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The note H

Post by ttf_Lou Natunze » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:54 pm

Quote from: davdud101 on Feb 09, 2017, 11:04AMIf there is any one system I dislike and refuse to use, It's the European system that switched out B-natural for H.

HALLO!

H comes AFTER G!!!  Image

Perhaps they switched out H♭ for B !
ttf_Driving Park
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The note H

Post by ttf_Driving Park » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:10 pm

Quote from: davdud101 on Feb 09, 2017, 11:04AMIf there is any one system I dislike and refuse to use, It's the European system that switched out B-natural for H.

My choice is undoubtedly the British/Australian system of naming note lengths. It boggles my mind how such a woefully antiquated system hasn't been left in the past where it belongs. Which makes more sense, "hemidemisemiquaver" or "64th note"? I'll take "reasonable fractions that anyone can understand" for $200, Alex.
ttf_Exzaclee
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The note H

Post by ttf_Exzaclee » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:24 am

Quote from: Driving Park on Apr 10, 2017, 04:10PMMy choice is undoubtedly the British/Australian system of naming note lengths. It boggles my mind how such a woefully antiquated system hasn't been left in the past where it belongs. Which makes more sense, "hemidemisemiquaver" or "64th note"? I'll take "reasonable fractions that anyone can understand" for $200, Alex.

Back when I was a bandleader on cruise ships I ran into this issue with a british pianist who had to ask me to clarify what an 1/8th note was after some instruction I gave. That band had people from all over the world in it and he was the only one who didn't know what an 1/8th note was (i still think he was just putting me on.) I hate the word "crotchet" because of him.
ttf_BGuttman
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The note H

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:31 pm

Since Berklee eliminated the Bb (B on German music), maybe we can replace it with "Hes" (sounds like a brand of Gasoline in the Northeast US).
ttf_Lou Natunze
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The note H

Post by ttf_Lou Natunze » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:28 pm

Quote from: oslide on Feb 07, 2017, 06:13PMThis is taken from a Wiki article in German, translated by Google and tweaked a bit by me. I hope the special characters will still look right.

"In the Middle Ages, the first seven letters of the alphabet were sufficient to characterize the tone inventory used. At the latest in the eleventh century, Guido of Arezzo established a cleavage of the tone B in a higher ( b durum ) and a deeper variant ( b molle ), characterized by an angular ♮ ( b squaerum ) and round ♭ ( b rotundum ) shape of the letter b. From the b quadratum today's resolution sign and the cross emerged, from the b rotundum the displacement sign b .

Because of the optical similarity of the b squareum with the letter h and the subsequent use of the printing type h for the b squareum, in the 16th century in Germany, Scandinavia, and the Westslaw region the designation H for the 7th stage of the basic scale was used ( which since Zarlino (1571) commonly started with C )."

And now lets look at some German Black Letter fonts.

The first word on each line is   "Schristbeispiel".

Image
Now in this first word,  consider letter no. 3, an "h", and letter no. 8, a "b".

Do really think you could differentiate between the two if the printing press was not printing cleanly ?

The fourth line down,  Schristbeispiel Deutsche Anzeigenschrist, is the one
I've seen the most often in musty old textbooks.

With this one, a capital "A" looks like a stylized capital "U",
and a capital "D" and a capital "O" look oh so very similar !

Now the "durum", "molle", "squaerum", and "rotundum" versions of "b" will probably take me quite a while longer to hunt down.




ttf_oslide
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The note H

Post by ttf_oslide » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:05 am

Quote from: Lou Natunze on Apr 13, 2017, 10:28PMThe first word on each line is   "Schristbeispiel".

If you look closely it's actually "Schriftbeispiel", i.e. "font example".

The "f" and "s" of those fonts were very similar, both looking like a "∫", but the "f" having a slash, and the "s" not.

May look terribly confusing, but when you're used to it it's not a problem.

ttf_MikeBMiller
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The note H

Post by ttf_MikeBMiller » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:40 am

I have been told that I sound like H on many occasions.
ttf_BGuttman
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The note H

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:25 am

Quote from: MikeBMiller on Apr 14, 2017, 07:40AMI have been told that I sound like H on many occasions.

Gee, that's good.  People tell me I sound like S Image
ttf_BGuttman
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The note H

Post by ttf_BGuttman » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:25 am

Quote from: MikeBMiller on Apr 14, 2017, 07:40AMI have been told that I sound like H on many occasions.

Gee, that's good.  People tell me I sound like S Image
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