Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

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ttf_MikeBassBone
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_MikeBassBone »

I have been on a Warburton 1.5G for about 3 months now, coming from a Ferguson L that I had played for 2 years, and from a Bach 1.25G before that and a Schilke 59 before that.

The Warburton is so different from the L, but I much prefer my sound on the Warburton. Especially since I have been playing tenor and bass pretty much the same amount of time per week (practice and performance) I think it has made switching back and forth between the two horns less adjustment time. Right now I use a Doug Elliott LT100 G G8 mouthpiece, so I guess thats like a 6.5G. I like the sound and flexibility it lends me on my Kanstul .547 tenor. I switched to that from playing a Heritage Wick 4BL.  So I guess my preferences in mouthpieces has started to air on the standard (6.5G/ 1.5G) side of things.

I have ordered a Rath 1.5 but I haven't heard anything from Dillon's about them getting any in. I am also waiting on a Ferguson V to try.

It might sound crazy, but I have been toying with the idea of trying out some (gasp) 2G sized mouthpieces. Anyone have some suggestions for good 2G sized pieces?
ttf_slidejj
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_slidejj »

Quote from: MikeBassBone on May 23, 2008, 04:26AMIt might sound crazy, but I have been toying with the idea of trying out some (gasp) 2G sized mouthpieces. Anyone have some suggestions for good 2G sized pieces?

Wick Heritage 2AL.
ttf_blast
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_blast »

Quote from: slidejj on May 23, 2008, 05:04AMWick Heritage 2AL.


The last Heritage 2AL I looked at was on the big side... more of a traditional 1 1/2G size... Greg Black's 2G is the same. Hard to think of a real 2G size piece.... apart from a Bach 2G.

Chris Stearn.
ttf_slidejj
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_slidejj »

Quote from: blast on May 23, 2008, 02:40PM
The last Heritage 2AL I looked at was on the big side... more of a traditional 1 1/2G size... Greg Black's 2G is the same. Hard to think of a real 2G size piece.... apart from a Bach 2G.

Chris Stearn.

The Heritage 2AL I used to own had a tad smaller inner rim diameter than my 1.5 size pieces but I'm pretty sure it's larger than the old style 2AL I owned years ago.  Whether you consider it a smallish 1.5 or largish 2 it's a good mouthpiece.   
ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

The Shilke 58 is maybe not a 2g size but is a little smaller than my 1 1/2g. My old Wick 2al is also smaller(still a very big dark sound) I like the Schilke more and more. It feels more safe and secure to play than my Bach but not the same sound..... yet.... In my position I should maybe choose safety before sound? I'm not a full time pro player and practising time is limited in periods with lot of teaching. I don't think the world goes under if I choose safety before a sound where maybe only I notice the difference? Sorry writing much garbage here but still searching. My daughter 8 years say I must stop it.....she is the boss so I will put them all away and go for safety.

Leif
ttf_boneagain
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_boneagain »

Quote from: savio on May 24, 2008, 12:35AMThe Shilke 58 is maybe not a 2g size but is a little smaller than my 1 1/2g. My old Wick 2al is also smaller(still a very big dark sound) I like the Schilke more and more. It feels more safe and secure to play than my Bach but not the same sound..... yet.... In my position I should maybe choose safety before sound? I'm not a full time pro player and practising time is limited in periods with lot of teaching. I don't think the world goes under if I choose safety before a sound where maybe only I notice the difference? Sorry writing much garbage here but still searching. My daughter 8 years say I must stop it.....she is the boss so I will put them all away and go for safety.

Leif

NOT garbage, Savio!

At least, not from my point of view.  From MY point of view, playing trombone is NOT music unless I do it for, and usually with, someone else.  Being "safe" while playing with or for someone else shows proper regard and respect for the others.  I do NOT honestly think that I can make such a beautiful sound with a "risky" mouthpiece that any audience will say, "Oh, it's OK he splatted those five notes right at the climax... the other notes were SOOOOO pretty!"  I DO honestly think that if a bunch of folks with limited practice time allow me to join in whatever music they are making, I have no right to waste all THEIR efforts.  I just can't imagine the whole group cooking along, making perhaps the most musical pass ever at some music they really love, then stepping in with a high risk mouthpiece and upsetting the applecart with some bass trombone lick that doesn't come out quite right.

I'm not talking about being boring here, and never taking chances.  Actually, I'm all for taking chances. But I want to take them on purpose when I MEAN to take a chance.  I want it to be at points where the people with whom I play have agreed we should go for one notch more forte, and where we have consideration that our listeners will have an improved OVERALL musical experience.  I'm just saying, at my age, having been off the horn for long periods, and with only a couple hours to practice a day, I want to CHOOSE my chances.

Not garbage at all.  From the days when I made my living at this I vaguely recall someone telling me a professional is a person who can be relied on to produce the results for which he or she is being paid, time after time, no excuses.  That's hard enough to do without risky equipment!

Thanks for your insightful comments!
ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

Quote from: boneagain on May 24, 2008, 04:59AMBeing "safe" while playing with or for someone else shows proper regard and respect for the others.  I do NOT honestly think that I can make such a beautiful sound with a "risky" mouthpiece that any audience will say, "Oh, it's OK he splatted those five notes right at the climax... the other notes were SOOOOO pretty!"  I DO honestly think that if a bunch of folks with limited practice time allow me to join in whatever music they are making, I have no right to waste all THEIR efforts.
 Image and thanks Dave, I take your words with me!!!

Leif
ttf_blast
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_blast »

Dave is very much on the money.... professionals choose equipment that WORKS.... that means, safe, predictable, good sounding equipment... that often makes pros quite conservative in equipment choice... though those in safe, fully paid jobs seem more willing to experiment, and indeed, push the boundaries, whilst the freelance players cannot afford to take any risks at all.
Chris Stearn
ttf_GetzenBassPlayer
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_GetzenBassPlayer »

Quote from: blast on May 24, 2008, 10:10AMDave is very much on the money.... professionals choose equipment that WORKS.... that means, safe, predictable, good sounding equipment... that often makes pros quite conservative in equipment choice... though those in safe, fully paid jobs seem more willing to experiment, and indeed, push the boundaries, whilst the freelance players cannot afford to take any risks at all.
Chris Stearn

I have a recording of an Arnold Jacobs masterclass where he talks about how the section would experiment with different mouthpieces to help with the boredom but would keep their tried and true, old faithful in their pocket just in case things go wrong with the new one. Image
ttf_Bellend
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Bellend »

Mike

Warburton now make a 2G, this is from their website:

2G 1.58 0.295 1.06 Deep Narrower ID than the 1 1/2G. Full resonant sound in all registers

Alternatively, Mt. Vernon 2G's do not command the same huge values as their larger brother so if you keep your ear to the ground you might be able to get a bargain, I paid $40 for mine  Image

BellEnd

BellEnd
ttf_MikeBassBone
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_MikeBassBone »

Quote from: blast on May 24, 2008, 10:10AMDave is very much on the money.... professionals choose equipment that WORKS.... that means, safe, predictable, good sounding equipment... that often makes pros quite conservative in equipment choice... though those in safe, fully paid jobs seem more willing to experiment, and indeed, push the boundaries, whilst the freelance players cannot afford to take any risks at all.
Chris Stearn

*cough*


Although I am not a professional I do get paid on the 1st and 15th for(among other things) playing the trombone. I started on a 59/1.25G mouthpiece and have always played around with ones that size. Recently I made a trade with a friend and got a Warburton 1.5G and I have discovered that this size is working for me. The same thing with when I started to play tenor more and more. I was recommended the 4G so I played that and after a while I started moving to a smaller mouthpiece. Currently I am using a Doug Elliott that I bought second hand on the classifieds. Its got a 6.5AL rim size on a G cup. I guess there is a reason most trombones come with a 6.5AL or a 1.5G if its a bass.
ttf_Dan H.
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Dan H. »

I think most of the large bore tenors are being sent with 5G's now, but I could be mistaken. I know that Conn's are, and (somewhat recently) Bach's as well.

From what I've seen and heard, the large shank 6 1/2 is all but extinct these days, save for the occasional bloke who needs a small mouthpiece, or a trombonist new to large bore horns. Many people have them lying in their cases or closets, but few that I know of actually put a great deal of use in them.

Random thought - seems to me that the 6 1/2 is kind of like the tenor equivalent to a 2G.
ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

I have now been 5 days one one mouthpiece and I'm proud of that. (Thanks to my little daughter who have hide all the other mouthpieces somewhere......) The one she left for me is my old Bach 1 1/2g because she listen to all and decided this was best for me.

Its a terrible thing to be on a mouthpiece hunt if you are a person like me who want to be really really sure you find the right one. Someone said in another tread if the price for a mouthpiece was 1 000 dollar we would find the right one very quick. So agree.

Anyway I have no choice anymore and I'm so glad. (I also have a little dog which maybe could find the other mouthpieces somewhere but he don't like trombone music so I will not ask him)

I will work with this mouthpiece and I'm sure its the best for me. I always record some of my practice and her are links to two of my todays songs: Remember this is played by an old teacher which just have some fun please, not a pro player.



http://www.mediafire.com/?vayjbzmhxkt 

http://www.mediafire.com/?0rv12swn8jt

Cheers

ttf_Brisko
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Brisko »

Savio,

Very nice playing... thanks for sharing with us.

You need to have your daughter keep those other mouthpieces hidden for about 6 months time (or maybe permanently!).  After that, maybe try another one, just for fun, for a few weeks.

I find that I have learned much from each mouthpiece I have played, but that I've really only got to know them after quite a bit of time (some I liked, some not).  But when I find one that works (that is, doesn't hold me back), I set about trying to learn to play it in the best possible fashion.  The results are usually mixed, often surprising, but have always made me a better player overall.
ttf_slideorama
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_slideorama »

Sav - sounds great, thanks for the clips.
ttf_savio
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Post by ttf_savio »

Thanks Brisko I know I should have done it the way you say and many other but not so easy to do when you have all the mouthpieces in front of you? As a teacher I tell to a 10 years old child what they have to do and they do it. I got many good advices here in this forum and know I should follow them but still don't do it.........?  But now I have to and thats like a stone fall of my shoulders.
ttf_MikeBassBone
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_MikeBassBone »

Well I got a hold of a Rath B1½, a Ferguson V and a Warburton 1½G. I have played the Warburton for the longest, and I just recently received the Rath and Ferguson. Initially, I like the feel of both the Ferguson and the Rath, but I really like the comfort of the Rath. But most of all the sound I get from the Rath is so far the best. Its nice and rich and meaty, but it still sounds like a trombone. I am still finding my footing a little bit since I just spent about a month playing exclusively tenor gigs. Ill post more findings(and if I am feeling brave, recordings) as I learn what these pieces are all about.

I still kind of want to try a 2G.
ttf_Slidennis
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Slidennis »

Quote from: savio on May 30, 2008, 08:02AMI have now been 5 days one one mouthpiece and I'm proud of that. (Thanks to my little daughter who have hide all the other mouthpieces somewhere......) The one she left for me is my old Bach 1 1/2g because she listen to all and decided this was best for me.

(...)

And on the other side of the 1 1/2G, yamaha 620G or conn 72H ???
ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

I play Yamaha 620g. I have some trouble learning how to play my 72h. The Yamaha is easier for me to play. I will try it more in the summer holyday. The trigger/pedal register and the difference in slide positions is my problem. How about you Denis? You play the the 72h all the time?

Leif
ttf_JimR
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_JimR »

Quote from: MikeBassBone on Jun 04, 2008, 12:31AMWell I got a hold of a Rath B1½, a Ferguson V and a Warburton 1½G. ...

I still kind of want to try a 2G.

Mike,
I have been using a Rath B2 for a few months.  I played on a FAXX 1.5G and the rims are pretty close to the same size, but the Rath B2 plays more like a Bach 2G.  I played a Bach 2G for quite a while and liked it, however, for me the rim was pretty sharp, almost like a Bach 7C (in style, not size!).  The B2 had a more comfy rim and more open backbore allowing more air.  I play a 72H with a Kanstul GR leadpipe and the Rath works quite well.  You may want to try one, especially if you like the style of the Rath (although I have not played a Rath 1.5) - to me it is sized between a modern Bach 2G and the FAXX type 1.5G's.  Seems to be a nice fit with a 72H.

JR
ttf_Slidennis
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Slidennis »

Quote from: savio on Jun 04, 2008, 07:40AMI play Yamaha 620g. I have some trouble learning how to play my 72h. The Yamaha is easier for me to play. I will try it more in the summer holyday. The trigger/pedal register and the difference in slide positions is my problem. How about you Denis? You play the the 72h all the time?

Leif
It's a 71H, and yes I gave back to the brass band the Yamaha 620G they lent me at the time, and I had at least three comments about how better I sounded on the 71H in that brass band...

The Bach 1 1/2G is the mpc I play on, and was the best on the Yamaha too (for me), better for me than either the Laskey 85MD or the Rath 1 1/2G.  I just pruchased on British eBay a Blessing 1 1/2G to compare, but I won't go outside the 1.5 G type of mpc anymore (Looking for a Schilke 58 as well)
ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

Quote from: Slidennis on Jun 04, 2008, 11:40PMIt's a 71H, and yes I gave back to the brass band the Yamaha 620G they lent me at the time, and I had at least three comments about how better I sounded on the 71H in that brass band...

The Bach 1 1/2G is the mpc I play on, and was the best on the Yamaha too (for me), better for me than either the Laskey 85MD or the Rath 1 1/2G.  I just pruchased on British eBay a Blessing 1 1/2G to compare, but I won't go outside the 1.5 G type of mpc anymore (Looking for a Schilke 58 as well)

There is so many good mouthpieces, I just had to get them away Image

I want to learn my 72h, nearly the same as 71h isn't it? And I think it project more then the 620g. So I can believe they like it in your brass band. The sound is very nice and sings more when playing melodies. But I find it more difficult to play? I will practice it in the summer. The yamaha is very easy and safe for me to play so I wait with the 72h until I'm alone.

Leif
ttf_Slidennis
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Slidennis »

The 71H is of a more rencent generation as the other 3 : 60, 62, 73H  ; 70 and 72H are older...

The ones with tuning in the bell are 71, 72 and 73H ; the others are TIS.

The 71 and 73 are yellow belled with a narrow bell throat : very responsive trombones, with an orchestral tone...

I dunno for your 72H...  But surely another kind of beast IMO...
ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

I played it some today and it feels better and better. So I just need to practice it. It is very responsive and more stable in the sound than my yamaha. And its better when playing loud. I still have trouble with the low register. The low c on 7th + is very good but when playing bordogni I have problem getting a full sound in mp/mf(trigger register)f e but better when I go down to d and c?

Leif
ttf_boneagain
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_boneagain »

Quote from: savio on Jun 05, 2008, 04:43AMI played it some today and it feels better and better. So I just need to practice it. It is very responsive and more stable in the sound than my yamaha. And its better when playing loud. I still have trouble with the low register. The low c on 7th + is very good but when playing bordogni I have problem getting a full sound in mp/mf(trigger register)f e but better when I go down to d and c?

Leif

I used a 72H playing in the fleet in the early '70's.  The positions were quite different from my Reynolds Contempora and Bach horns.  To get it to work well I found it useful to play with my eyes closed, and do long tones, adjusting without looking until I got the notes (especially on the trigger) to resonate the way I wanted.  I don't know about other 72H instances, but the one I had responded VERY badly to being forced, and VERY well to paying careful attention to centering the pitch into the acoustic center of each note. 

Hope this helps.
ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

Thanks it helps. I cant look at the slide thats for sure. And not use finger on bell in 3rd position. Bad habit I know. I begin to get the horn sound better. Or maybe its the horn gettin me sound better?
ttf_Slidennis
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Slidennis »

Quote from: savio on Jun 05, 2008, 08:22AMThanks it helps. I cant look at the slide thats for sure. And not use finger on bell in 3rd position. Bad habit I know. I begin to get the horn sound better. Or maybe its the horn gettin me sound better?
Both...  Glad you made the switch!!!
ttf_The Bone Ranger
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_The Bone Ranger »

I wanted to add some more thoughts to this thread after putting more miles into my Greg Black 1.5GM, and a few good blows in some professional orchestral situations. I've dragged up a few quotes from Chris that resonated with my situation:

Quote from: blast on Oct 25, 2006, 11:32AMA lot of people complain that the low register 'backs up' on them when using a 1 1/2G.
I had to try some bigger mouthpieces last week (briefly) and really had to think about low register when returning to the 1 1/2.... AIR.... YOU REALLY HAVE TO GET YOUR AIR RIGHT ON A 1 1/2G.... it's so easy to put too much air through and have a 'back up'... or to put to little through and lose quality... it has to be JUST RIGHT.
Bigger mouthpieces seem to have a wider envelope of suitable airflow... 1 1/2 size pieces give you virtually no choice. Get it really right and the sound gets big and projects like crazy... wrong and you think you need a bigger mouthpiece.

I haven't noticed the air 'backing up' on me as much as I remember, or perhaps as much as people complain that it does. This may be because I'm playing one of the more open horns you will find (dependent Edwards, dual bore slide etc), but maybe not. Sometimes, I feel like some young players (myself circa 5 years ago included) are looking for an excuse to stroke their ego and move to a bigger piece, and the 'air backing up' excuse is as good as any to go bigger.

Getting my air right has been the biggest issue for me, though, especially in terms of the tone colour I'm producing. If I get the air wrong, a sound I'm not looking for can be produced, but while this can look bad on paper, I'm finding it can be a wonderful thing. The horn suddenly seems much more responsive to tone colour changes, so if I get the air right, I can go from warm and rich to bright and cutting (and everything in between) very easily, which is a far harder prospect on a larger mouthpiece, for me. I am learning to control and use this to my advantage, rather than viewing this size piece as being 'inconsistent in tone' or 'temperamental' as I may have in the past. I like having a larger range of colours at my disposal.

Quote from: blast on May 22, 2006, 03:42PMI've noticed that modern American bass trombonists using large mouthpieces adopt a whole different approach to embouchure formation, than the more traditional players.... almost a trumpet type embouchure, to get the brightness, definition and focus needed to get the results on such equipment.

This makes sense to me now, as I'm finding during my first notes of the day that I have to make a conscious effort to keep the pitch 'down'. If it's not in my thought process when I begin my routine, I often find after 10 minutes or so that I sound a little hard and brittle. As soon as I remember that I need to think 'down' on the pitch, the sound warms up, becomes golden, and that blend of warmth and richness appears. I think this stems from working the other way around on larger pieces, tightening up in order to gain some brightness and sizzle to a large piece who's default setting is 'warm'. My embouchure now is certainly more 'tenorish', for lack of a better term.

Frankly, I can't believe how easy it is to blend with the tenors when I'm above the staff. I played Sleeping Beauty with the Kiev Ballet yesterday, and there is a unison, descending F# minor arpeggio starting on the F# above the stave. In the past, in that situation, I would have played those notes, but backed off, essentially supporting the tenors with my pitch, but softer, so that they provided the correct sound, and I stayed out of the way until it was back in the stave where my sound seemed more appropriate. Not yesterday. I believe you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference in that register between myself, and the other players on a Bach 42 and a Shires. I was impressed.

My relationship with the tuba sound has changed, too. I think in the past, I've spent too much time producing a huge, wide, warm sound, and it doesn't necessarily do the tuba any favours. In the past, I've had trouble finding my pitch in relation to the tuba, and to a lesser degree, the basses. Maybe this was more to do with my chops being unstable with the large rim size, or not enough focus to the sound, or it's easier to hear now, but I'm not sure. My aim has changed more to providing focus to the centre of the tuba sound, and letting him provide the bulk and warmth. The tuba player was playing a big old 6/4 Cerveny in CC, and I think the combination of my change in thinking and the change in my setup produced a far more pleasing result. It was certainly easier to be in tune, and the combined noise was superb. Swan Lake, in particular, has lots of octaves and unisons with the tuba, so I really got to explore this thoroughly. Great fun!


Quote from: blast on Mar 26, 2008, 12:56AMFunny how the 1 1/2G seems easier when you come back to it after years on the big stuff.

I've thought this every single day since switching back, and increasingly since finding the Greg Black.

I think the big thing, for me, is that I've not been thinking about different sizes/brands of mouthpiece, since finding the Greg Black. I moved from mouthpiece to mouthpiece over the past five years, in the 59/60 range, thinking that I just hadn't found the right one for me, but in hindsight, maybe I should have been questioning whether I was looking at the right rim size. To quote Doug Elliott from a thread where someone had said they'd been through 15 7C-sized mouthpieces looking for the right fit, and hadn't found one they'd liked:

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Mar 28, 2008, 05:01PMUsually when someone has been through that many mouthpieces of roughly the same size, and can't find one to their liking, IT'S THE WRONG SIZE.

I had a quick blow the other day on my altered Schilke 59, and a Laskey 85MD that I liked a lot. Suddenly, the size mouthpiece that I'd played for 5 years felt massive (!!), and one minute on these pieces was enough for me to put them away, shudder a little, and happily return to the 1.5G.

20/20 hindsight. It's a wonderful thing...

Andrew
ttf_MikeBassBone
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_MikeBassBone »

I just got my 2G, I haven't had a chance to play it on my shires bass. Compared to the Ferg V, it acctually feels bigger on the face. After I get a chance to play it on my bass, and do some more playing comparisons with the Rath, the Fergeson V, and the Bach I will post my findings.
ttf_second.chance
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_second.chance »

Sven, Leif, Alf... I called in to Brasspecialsten last week as I passed through, great shop, very interesting (reminiscent of the old New York shops with the technicians working in the shop and everything lying around). I picked up one of their 1.5G mouthpieces - buzzed on it as I drove home (2 days drive) but I havent given it a proper road test yet - I'll let you know how it feels in due course. It really is a copy of a Bach, even the outside turning is identical in shape and dimensions... Doug
ttf_slidejj
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_slidejj »

Yes, the Ferg. V does feel small, much smaller than my Rath 1-1/2W, although the inner diameters are almost identical.  The Heritage 2AL has a smaller diameter than the V but feels larger, at least to me.

Quote from: MikeBassBone on Jun 23, 2008, 03:10PMI just got my 2G, I haven't had a chance to play it on my shires bass. Compared to the Ferg V, it actually feels bigger on the face.
ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

Quote from: second.chance on Jun 24, 2008, 01:18AMSven, Leif, Alf... I called in to Brasspecialsten last week as I passed through, great shop, very interesting (reminiscent of the old New York shops with the technicians working in the shop and everything lying around). I picked up one of their 1.5G mouthpieces - buzzed on it as I drove home (2 days drive) but I havent given it a proper road test yet - I'll let you know how it feels in due course. It really is a copy of a Bach, even the outside turning is identical in shape and dimensions... Doug

Yes please tell us how this mouthpiece is. I have bought a new Bach 1 1/2g since all my other mouthpieces is hidden somewhere Image Want to see how it is compared to my old one. I like the sound I get from the old, but feel I miss a little more one this compared to most other 1 1/2 size I have tried.  I know practice and time will make me more secure on the old. But I'm just a little curios about this new 1 1/2g I bought. When I look at them I cant see any difference but...

I have one question about all mouthpieces in this size: Are they all more or less copy of Bach 1 1/2g (or Mt. Vernon)? With some modifications? Or Schilke?

Leif
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_blast »

Quote from: savio on Jun 26, 2008, 08:29AMYes please tell us how this mouthpiece is. I have bought a new Bach 1 1/2g since all my other mouthpieces is hidden somewhere Image Want to see how it is compared to my old one. I like the sound I get from the old, but feel I miss a little more one this compared to most other 1 1/2 size I have tried.  I know practice and time will make me more secure on the old. But I'm just a little curios about this new 1 1/2g I bought. When I look at them I cant see any difference but...

I have one question about all mouthpieces in this size: Are they all more or less copy of Bach 1 1/2g (or Mt. Vernon)? With some modifications? Or Schilke?

Leif


Not all mouthpieces in this size are copies of Mt Vernon Bachs... the Holton 87 and 1 1/2G are quite different, as is the Schilke 58, Conn 3B and many others. Bach mouthpieces tend to be like Bach trombones... you have to search for the good ones... the bad ones come looking for you  Image
If you've tried one Bach 1 1/2G, you've tried one Bach 1 1/2G.
Chris Stearn.
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

This new Bach 1 1/2g was nearly the same as my old one but after trying it the sound is much broader from the old one. But still have a solid core (I hope). I think the new one is some more V shaped and the rim have a "little" more round profile. Not bad at all.

The sound from the old one is best in my ears but still there are some other in that size with easier low range. The sound is soft and big when playing mp but change very quick to a sound with more "punch" (don't know the word) when playing loader. It makes me colour the sound more easy.

Leif
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_LBKA09 »

does anyone know where i can get a Conn 3B?
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Trombocholik »

Quote from: blast on Jun 26, 2008, 08:36AM
Not all mouthpieces in this size are copies of Mt Vernon Bachs...

I would like to find out, whence there is such worship before Bach Mt. Vernon?
Whether all is valid Bach Mt. Vernon so are good?
I recently saw in shop 2 old Bach 1 1/2G Mt. Vernon. They absolutely different.
One is more, another is less in size. One with round rim, another with flat rim.
Throats also absolutely different.
Such impression, that these two mouthpieces were made with two different manufactories... Image
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

They are made by some fine mouthpiece makers in a specific period of time an location. And are made more on the feel and hand by this mouthpiece maker if I understand the posts from Sam Burtis right.  Make a search on his post and you will even see a picture of this mouthpiece maker.  Since they are more "handmade" than todays mouthpieces from Bach, they have maybe something "special" but are all different.

They are popular and not easy to get. And its not certain all of us would feel they are right for us. And since they are all different we have to try some of them to find one we like.

For some of us even a regular Bach can be the "good" one. They are also different from each other. We don't know before we try. I have not tried any Mt.Vernon so I don't know what they are.

Some goes for 300 dollars on ebay but I will not pay so much for a mouthpiece that maybe not is right for me. And they are maybe not right for all of us.

Some compare this mouthpieces with heaven but heaven for one can be hell for another.

But it must be something with them.........what? ........somebody else must give the answear


Leif
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_svenlarsson »

Some of the Vernon pieces may be good for you, some of the new Bach pieces may also be good for you, but you can’t sell the on Ebay for $300.
If I can convince players that they become better players if the pray to the moon, they will feel that they do get better players if they pray to the moon.

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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

Well Svenne I have to make a prayer then........but where is Mr. Stern(blast)? Holiday? Or hiding in his castle with his Mt.Vernon....
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Slidennis »

Quote from: svenlarsson on Jul 05, 2008, 03:53AMSome of the Vernon pieces may be good for you, some of the new Bach pieces may also be good for you, but you can’t sell the on Ebay for $300.
If I can convince players that they become better players if the pray to the moon, they will feel that they do get better players if they pray to the moon.

They will feel that they do get better players, coz their $300 should give them a good sound and technique as marketed, and that's a shame if they cannot reach it although they paid a lot for it... 

So they practice with their new wonderfull mpc, then suddenly they discover that their former one was not bad at all!!!  (the one that came with their trombone...   Image Image)
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_lingon »

Quote from: svenlarsson on Jul 05, 2008, 03:53AM...If I can convince players that they become better players if the pray to the moon,...
Svenne,
I buy the concept, only trouble is I can not even see the moon, where is it?! I can see all my 1.5 clones though, can I not pray to them instead?

John Lingesjo

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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

John, if I pray to all of my 1 1/2 clones it will take two days, better to make it to the moon like Svenne says. Some pray to God but I don't think so many of us has seen him either.......... Image



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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

Since holyday is over I want to ask a couple of questions. Do some of you or Chris know something about mouthpieces which only says George Roberts?  There are three of them: SE, CE and MV. I don't think they are made by Conn or any other famous mouthpiece makers. I never heard about this before and don't think George played them as far I know. I did buy them on ebay and hope they are here soon.

Another question: A bass trombone friend plays a Laskey 85md and when he tried my conn 72h he sounded very nice. I tried it but it was much bigger than I thought it was. Nearly like a Yeo mouthpiece. Very big. He did sound nice so I assume its possible to make a 72h sound with such a big mouthpiece?  Or?


Leif
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Gabe Langfur »

The Laskey 85MD is smaller than a Yeo mouthpiece overall. I think the Yeo is not a lot bigger at the rim, but the cup, throat and backbore are much larger.

The 85MD sounds and feels to me like an oversize 1 1/2 G much more than an undersize 60, if you know what I mean.
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_second.chance »

George did do these mouthpieces they were his designs. He fell out with the guy doing them, the business arrangement wasn't a good one. So they are genuine but George does not have anything to do with them any more. There was a GR mouthpiece before that and of course the Ferguson one is the current one that George endorses, all three incarnations were intended to be identical - whether they are I don't know. The three variations you bought were variations on a theme. I don't know which of the three versions you have is the  same as the current Ferguson GR but one of them is. The GR mouthpiece is basically a 1.5G perhaps more like the Bach megatone without the air sucking tendencies. They are good mouthpieces. Kindest regards... Doug
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

Quote from: Gabe Langfur on Jul 25, 2008, 11:54AMThe Laskey 85MD is smaller than a Yeo mouthpiece overall. I think the Yeo is not a lot bigger at the rim, but the cup, throat and backbore are much larger.

The 85MD sounds and feels to me like an oversize 1 1/2 G much more than an undersize 60, if you know what I mean.

Thanks Gabe. I know what you mean, and I understand what you say about an "oversize 1 1/2g" . My friend  playing  on my 72h did sound as an oversize 1 1/2g. I really like the sound he did  with the 85md. So I think it is possible to make this size work on a 72h. Maybe the same size as a Schilke 59 but the sound........very different.

Leif
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

Quote from: second.chance on Jul 25, 2008, 12:25PMGeorge did do these mouthpieces they were his designs. He fell out with the guy doing them, the business arrangement wasn't a good one. So they are genuine but George does not have anything to do with them any more. There was a GR mouthpiece before that and of course the Ferguson one is the current one that George endorses, all three incarnations were intended to be identical - whether they are I don't know. The three variations you bought were variations on a theme. I don't know which of the three versions you have is the  same as the current Ferguson GR but one of them is. The GR mouthpiece is basically a 1.5G perhaps more like the Bach megatone without the air sucking tendencies. They are good mouthpieces. Kindest regards... Doug


Thanks for the info Doug, I never heard about them before, Do you know why George Roberts fell out with this mouthpiece maker?  And do you know if any ever did or do play these mouthpieces?

Regards


Leif
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_second.chance »

George, as always, is the perfect gentleman and he never told me exactly what happened, in fact he made a joke about it and said the Ferguson was the same so it didnt matter.

I dont know anyone who plays the pieces you have bought and I have never tried them either. I have bid a couple of times on ebay, just as you have done, but never won the auction. I think the guy still has a stock of them, even though we are probably talking 20 years ago now (not sure).

I have the Ferguson GR model and its very nice. I think its more like my original Mount Vernon, but thats just an impression cant say for sure. Takes a bit more air but the lower register speaks without too much hard work. I'd be interested to know what teh other two models are like when you have sorted them all out.  Cheers... Doug
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_second.chance »

PS Leif.. the wife I just spent the last two weeks in Norway, making our way from Oslo across to to Aurland and up the Fjords and the Atlantic coast to NordKapp, on the motorbike - got back today. Lovely places and good memories - cost me a fortune though!!.. Doug
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

I will tell you Doug when I have them inside my house.


Skåål  Doug!
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