Wrist, Elbow, and Elbow Pain/Soreness/Tension

Post Reply
ttf_anonymous
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:09 pm

Wrist, Elbow, and Elbow Pain/Soreness/Tension

Post by ttf_anonymous »

I can imagine this is a often discussed topic on this forum, but I'm hoping that by explaining my situation and issues that have arose since starting college can give me somewhat of a plan of action to deal with and hopefully reverse/relieve any pain.

So my weapon of choice is an Edwards B454 w/ Thayers.  Here are some of the issues I generally deal with on a daily basis:

1) Pain in my wrist from a mix of the weight of the horn and the incredibly long throw of thayers, I have played around with all sorts of hand rests and grips and have found the Sheridan Brass Get-a-grip to help with the weight issue of the horn but the redistribution of the weight that the Get-a-grip tends to lead to my next issue.

2) Pain in my elbow from my forearm acting as a monopod for the bulk of the weight of the horn.

3) I have noticed more and more recently that I have been getting pain in my left shoulder, which in turn leads me to try to use my right arm to help with some of the weight of the horn and develeping pain in my right shoulder.

Currently I am finishing up my Undergrad this semester before moving on and pursuing my Master's in the fall.  This pain/tension is something I want to nip before it becomes a more serious problem as has taken victim to a few saxophonists in the department.  But being the only bass trombonist in a smaller D2 sized music school, you can imagine that I'm in quite high demand and don't get a lot of time off the horn each day. 

I have looked into some solutions such as Ergo-bone (This ended up creating other tensions instead), I have started doing Alexander Technique with our Clarinet professor which has helped with my posture and general tension throughout my body.  As well as stretching both before, during, and after longer practice sessions and taking breaks every 30-45 minutes or so.  But still I am miffed on what my next step is to take.

I'm currently debating whether this can be relieved by going to a doctor for his advice, but I am also researching a possible change of instruments as I got my Edwards as a junior high school and now I'm not so sure it is the best set up for me now nearly 10 years later.  I'm possibly looking into switching to either a Rath with Haagmans or Rotax's, or a Shires with Tru-Bores/rotors.  At this point before beginning a MM and a DMA, I am considering any/all options and advice.

Anything from the forum is greatly appreciated.
ttf_bigbassbone1
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:34 pm

Wrist, Elbow, and Elbow Pain/Soreness/Tension

Post by ttf_bigbassbone1 »

Go straight to the doctor. Seriously, there are no two ways about it. I wouldn't even consider reading responses on a thread like this until you had sought sound advice from a medical professional, and had a better idea of what information to take seriously here and which to disregard.

One thing I will say, i dont think getting a new horn would be much better.
ttf_Ellrod
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

Wrist, Elbow, and Elbow Pain/Soreness/Tension

Post by ttf_Ellrod »

Or a physio.
ttf_JESimmons
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:57 am

Wrist, Elbow, and Elbow Pain/Soreness/Tension

Post by ttf_JESimmons »

Get checked out. I'm 68 and don't have any trouble holding a B454.
You might try different grips -  I have small hands and find putting all my left hand fingers within the cork barrels helps.
ttf_Terraplane8Bob
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:01 pm

Wrist, Elbow, and Elbow Pain/Soreness/Tension

Post by ttf_Terraplane8Bob »

Greg : I notice that you are a fellow Sinfonian !  Hail, Sinfonia !!  Now --- onto the real purpose of my writing to you.
     Believe me when I tell you that I totally understand your concerns.  I speak as someone who had a full career as bass trombonist of a major symphony orchestra and had that career ended when symptoms similar to yours appeared.  Yes, I always had some discomfort in holding the cumbersome "machine" that we use to make music with, but I came from the era where you simply "toughed it out" --- period.  You should understand that during my career, bass trombones were still developing into the gargantuan  appliances that they have become and that single valve instruments were the norm.  Of course, at this point in time, plenty of composers have written compositions utilizing the availability of double trigger horns and so a return to the "norm" that I mentioned most likely will not happen.  An interesting horn that appeared which showed that not everyone was on the "bigger is better" kick was the Holton bass trombone developed with Edward Kleinhammer of The Chicago Symphony.   It provided for easy removal of the double trigger setup so that the player didn't have to haul around all of that extra weight.  I owned one and mostly used it in a single trigger configuration.  A very nice instrument but much more user-friendly in single configuration.
   One day I noticed that I seemed to be having an embouchure problem and went to my old friend, the mirror, to see what was going on.  My mouthpiece seemed to be moving lower on my embouchure.  I discovered that my left wrist was caving in under the weight of my horn and that I was attempting to make up for that lack of support by relegating the support to my embouchure.  We both know that couldn't work and so I hit upon the idea of using a wrist support of the type that bowlers and golf players use to keep their wrists straight.   Voila !!  Problem solved ----- or so I thought !   What I had unconsciously done was to move the damaging stress FROM my wrist TO my elbow and shoulder over the period of a year or so.  By the time I visited a neurologist to seek relief, the damage was irreversible and I wasn't even able to hold the instrument up for even a minute without total collapse.  Simply put, it ended my playing career.
   I had put my instruments in storage for about 20 years when my wife heard about the ErgoBone.  I tried it, and despite a long adjustment period, I'm gigging with a BigBand and playing occasional orchestra jobs in my area.  It was a long haul, but the rewards have certainly been worth it.  At the old age of 78 I am once again enjoying the joys of playing bass bone !  I did improve on the ErgoBone harness by using a Neotech [?] baritone sax strap which distributes the weight more comfortably.
   I resolved that if I ever returned to teaching [which I never did] I would insist that my students follow a regimen of light weight lifting, especially if they were bass trombonists.
   This is "real life advice" from someone who has been through it.  Stop playing as soon as you notice the problem flaring up.  Let your fellow musicians know what's going on.  DON'T "tough it out" !  Seek a physical therapist or a trainer who REALLY understands what you are trying to do and can help you build up the musculature necessary to accomplish the task at hand.  Take your instrument along to the sessions so that they are actually seeing your problem.   Remember --- you are still a student ---- you are SUPPOSED to be still learning ---- you have to learn how to protect yourself from further harm ---- you don't have to prove anything to anyone by pushing your limit ---- "no pain, no gain" does NOT apply in this situation.  If you are being over-utilized because you are the only bass trombone player in your school --- say something !  Don't be robbed of the joy of music-making for someone else's requirements.  As a young man you will be able to carefully build your physical strengths in a manner suited to your specific needs and not go through the grief that I did.  Please heed my advice --- and may you have many years of joy playing our wonderful choice --- the bass trombone !
ttf_kbiggs
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:53 am

Wrist, Elbow, and Elbow Pain/Soreness/Tension

Post by ttf_kbiggs »

I, too, developed wrist, elbow and shoulder pain from (a) playing bass and tenor too long and (b) sedentary work at a non-ergonomic desk.

Go to a doctor, make sure there's no permanent damage. You will probably be referred for physiotherapy. When you are assigned exercises, DO THEM!

You might be prescribed anti-inflammatories, esp. NSAIDS. Take them. They help with pain but more importantly with inflammation and re-aggravating the injury.

Rest. A lot. Especially while you're still healing. Build rest into your practice routine. Do strengthening exercises when recommended, and flexibility/stretching exercises when recommended.

There are many different devices to help hold a trombone: the Klebsch strap (which I do not recommend), theErgoBone (which I do recommend and have used extensively in the past), the Bullet Brace and various other things like it made by Shires and others (these work for some but not for me), the NeoTech grip (some swear by it; didn't work for me), the Axe Handle (haven't tried it), a large device that clamps onto the bell stay and has a large pad that covers the back of the hand (various makers). My current favorite is the Sheridan Get-a-Grip.

You can also hold the instrument differently. See Doug Yeo's webpages: www.yeodoug.com. Sam Burtis has also posted an effective alternative grip. Serach for it here on TTF.

Playing the trombone is an unnatural act. Don't make it more difficult for yourself. While "human can flesh can adapt to almost anything" (courtesy Denis Wick), playing with pain is not an adaptation we should willingly make.
ttf_Dombat
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:42 pm

Wrist, Elbow, and Elbow Pain/Soreness/Tension

Post by ttf_Dombat »

I seconf everything above and would add one other thing. Pay attention to how you are using your body for everything. I was having some neck pain a few years ago during playing. I focussed on my chair adjustment, horn angle and left hand position. What solved it though? Not using my mobile phone whilst walking.
I am currently getting tiredness in my wrists from playing and one of the causes I realised is having the trombone stand too far away from me (I play full time in an opera house so pick up and put down my horn multiple times an hour). Solution? Move the horn.
Many of us do get pain and it is very important to treat seriously. However it can often be the movements outside of the actual playing that have negative effects on our health (sitting/standing position, how you carry your case, picking up the horn, how you sit in front of the tv in the evenings).
Stay aware, contact some form of medical advice (that is what they are there for) and don't be afraid to say no to playing, when it comes to your health staying fit is more important than that rehearsal where they reeeeaaalllly need a bass trombne.
ttf_Nanook
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:24 pm

Wrist, Elbow, and Elbow Pain/Soreness/Tension

Post by ttf_Nanook »

Being a retired healthcare worker I would suggest as many others have, to be seen by a professional...Many of these types of complaints are do to inflammation, and when ever I have had these symptoms, REST, ice and anti- inflammatory drugs were prescribed....I was always told, "it will never get better unless you rest it"....It killed me to rest it, but it worked....
ttf_Ellrod
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

Wrist, Elbow, and Elbow Pain/Soreness/Tension

Post by ttf_Ellrod »

Rest but do the exercises the physio recommends.
ttf_Ellrod
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:58 am

Wrist, Elbow, and Elbow Pain/Soreness/Tension

Post by ttf_Ellrod »

Rest but do the exercises the physio recommends.
Post Reply

Return to “The Healthy Trombonsit”