Holton TR-180 Bass Trombone

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:19 am

Hello, I have just acquired a 42 year old Holton TR-180 and must admit very surprised how nice it is to play. Just wondering if there as anyone else out there playing one?

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:13 am

You have joined what is becoming an exclusive club.... there are not many of us old Holton fans out there, but that's okay as we don't want everyone to know how good they are.
They have fallen out of favor as a result of fashion, being a lightweight design, and generally not working at their best with the big mouthpieces that are popular today. I have two 169s a 281 and a 180/185/Shires/Rath hybrid. They are easy to play and sound great... and THEY DO work in a professional symphony orchestra.
You didn't buy it on UK ebay recently did you ?
Chris Stearn

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:53 am

I have one that is in the shop getting some attention. Early 180-9 and 1/2 inch flare. Can't wait to get it back!

ttf_arrawarra · Post by **ttf_arrawarra** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:20 am

Good to see I'm not alone out here. Many thanks for the replies. Yes I did buy it on ebay recently. It's has a 9 1/2" bell and considering the age an excellent trombone.

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:00 am

That sounds nice. I have one old TR 180 also. Very nice to play and the sound is fantastic. I'm surprised if this horn are called light? It don't look so and the sound, well my English vocabulary isn't much to say hurray for, but the sound from the Holton is one definitely one thing to say hurray for.

Congratulate with a nice bass trombone.

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:01 am

Ha ! Ha ! I owned that trombone !!! It's a nice early example. It is pretty close to some of my other trombones so I did a trade with Andy as he really liked it. A nasty dose of tennis elbow has put him back on a single, so he let the 180 go. His misfortune is your good luck

Do try and work with the Glantz lever is it is the earliest example I have seen and may well be a prototype. Your instrument is from the transition period from the 185 and abandoned 285 to the 180 model. A bit of history that plays. In terms of sound it is more like a 185 than the 180, which tended to spread a little more than the earlier models... the 9 1/2" bell makes quite a difference.
Chris Stearn

ttf_arrawarra · Post by **ttf_arrawarra** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:06 am

Wow, it's good to know alittle of it's history and it would be good to track who else it belonged to etc.
I took it to band last night for the first time and was pleased with it's sound and just how playable the trigger system is.
I was intending to leave eveything as it is and just enjoy maintaining and playing it. As they say if it's not broke.....

ttf_nopos · Post by **ttf_nopos** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:43 am

Congrats and welcome to the Holton club! I'm sure you'll continue to enjoy the Holton.

My TR180 is of similar vintage, from 1967. It was in original condition when i bought it from my former teacher. I have since had it modified to split triggers and open wrap. It plays nice, especially with the 9.5 bell which is a huge improvement over the later models with a bigger bell, IMHO. The slide was a bit worn so I substituted the inner with another one from an old 185. Improved the slide-action and also plays a bit better. It is currently in the shop for another modification, the bell will be replaced with a 185 bell of that feels a bit more alive. See below for some pics of the TR180 together with my 169.

Alf

ttf_arrawarra · Post by **ttf_arrawarra** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:35 am

It's good to see that there are people out there passionate about these trombones. There also seems to be quite a few of the sixties era bones still in use. Nice pictures by the way, looks like you have spent a lot of time and money on your trombone.

ttf_gbedinger · Post by **ttf_gbedinger** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:11 am

Hi Mark, welcome to the vintage Holton Club. They are great horns and while somewhat out-of-fashion, it is our gain. Just keep the secret to yourself.

George

ttf_lingon · Post by **ttf_lingon** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:47 pm

Quote from: arrawarra on Feb 16, 2010, 02:19AMHello, I have just acquired a 42 year old Holton TR-180 and must admit very surprised how nice it is to play. Just wondering if there as anyone else out there playing one?
Congratulations and welcome in the vintage Holton bass trombone club. Great instruments that were the standard bass trombone for many years, and today a well preserved secret. Yours is the not so usual smaller bell version with, late, early bell stay and some of the first with the loved/hated magic bar, a brilliant tool for operating the valves. I used to play one for many years but have, as many others, done a journey through many other trombones when the Holtons were said to be obsolete. Now gradually back to the Holton again. Great instruments. Have fun.

ttf_arrawarra · Post by **ttf_arrawarra** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:34 am

Thank you for the replies everyone, much appreciated. Looks like a good club to belong to.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:00 am

Welcome to the club. I also have a 180 with a 9 1/2 in bell from around 1967. I got as new old stock in 1976 for a 4bf and $200. I recently acquired a 185 of the same vintage. The only difference from my 180 (before it was modified) was the leadpipe and the second valve. The slide from the 185 made my 180 one of the best bass trombones I have ever played. I recently purchased Mike Suters 169 pipe that Kanstul makes. I put this pipe in my 180 slide and iid plays exactly the same. I know a lot of people have modified their Holtons. We should start a thread of Holton Bass mod's and how they changed the way the instrument played.

Larry

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:20 pm

Quote from: lhalpern on Feb 20, 2010, 06:00AMWelcome to the club. I also have a 180 with a 9 1/2 in bell from around 1967. I got as new old stock in 1976 for a 4bf and $200. I recently acquired a 185 of the same vintage. The only difference from my 180 (before it was modified) was the leadpipe and the second valve. The slide from the 185 made my 180 one of the best bass trombones I have ever played. I recently purchased Mike Suters 169 pipe that Kanstul makes. I put this pipe in my 180 slide and iid plays exactly the same. I know a lot of people have modified their Holtons. We should start a thread of Holton Bass mod's and how they changed the way the instrument played.

Larry

It may be a good idea to start such a thread. The older Holton stuff varies a huge amount. Every slide and bell blows differently. My current fav slide is an early 180, but my 181/180 slide with Shires leadpipe is close. All my Holtons are modded, from the '63 169 that has worked on by Herrick in '69 to the 181/281 that I am re-working now. I'll have to take some pics.

Chris Stearn

ttf_Burgerbob · Post by **ttf_Burgerbob** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:19 pm

Looks like I have one of the youngest 180s! 10in flare, Minickized with his wraps and triggers.

ttf_Dan Hine · Post by **ttf_Dan Hine** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:08 pm

Quote from: Burgerbob on Feb 20, 2010, 03:19PMLooks like I have one of the youngest 180s! 10in flare, Minickized with his wraps and triggers.

I miss that horn!

ttf_Burgerbob · Post by **ttf_Burgerbob** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:24 pm

Quote from: Dan Hine on Feb 20, 2010, 07:08PM
I miss that horn!

I'll trade it for a similar Shires setup.

ttf_Bob Kolada · Post by **ttf_Bob Kolada** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:44 pm

Quote from: Burgerbob on Feb 20, 2010, 08:24PMI'll trade it for a similar Shires setup.

How about a Courtois?

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:02 am

Looks like I have one of the youngest 180s! 10in flare, Minickized with his wraps and triggers.

Looks like a very nice horn and I bet it plays wonderfully. I'm not sure it's one of the earliest. If memory serves the earlier Tr-180s wrap is much closer to the main cross brace than this one. I have an earlier one with a 9 and 1/2 inch flare with a serial number close to a 185 vintage serial number. Wrap is very close to the cross brace. BUT you have a great horn!!!

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:39 am

Yes Burgerbobs Holton looks interesting. My 180 is not modified but have 10 inch bell. Not so very old either, its from 1976. But I like the sound and feel. Great respond, and a nice Holton sound. I also play my Conn 72h a lot because of my left shoulder. But at concerts I play the Holton. More safe and more what I'm used to play. Maybe the 9 1/2 bells are better but I feel the sound is not to wide despite the big bell. The only thing is the low C and B is a little difficult, but since I got it this summer I feel its slowly goes better. I found out its better just try to open up the sound with less air and not just try to "blow" it out like I did in the beginning.

Leif

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:35 pm

I've just finished an interesting experiment. I had put a 281 screw bell on my 181 and found it a big improvement, but last week I took that off and fitted a 185 9 1/2" bell. Didn't like it as much... so today I have re-fitted the 281 bell and am very happy with the result. Not a horn for everything, but a killer in the right situation.
Sometimes it's a bad thing being able to use a gas torch... too tempting to mess around.

Chris Stearn

ttf_gbedinger · Post by **ttf_gbedinger** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:18 pm

I have a modded TR-169 - Chuck McAlexander put a Bach independent valve-set on it with graceful, open wraps - not that clunky looking Bach wrap with 90 degree turns. I bought it from Jack Schatz a couple years ago and have never looked back. I have a 185 that may be in for a mod someday, if for no other reason than to update the valve linkages and split the dual thumb triggers.

Chris, you mean to say when you refitted the 281 bell you put it back with the original slide? Your comparison with the 185 bell is a little confusing and I presume it was comparing the 281 and 185 bell with the same slide.

As an aside, there was a screw-bell 183 on sale a while back that would be great for air travel. Ben van Dyke's screw bell Thein was in a nice flat case and he could take the paint off the far wall (tastefully, of course) when he was at the ETW a couple years ago.

George

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:35 am

Quote from: gbedinger on Feb 21, 2010, 05:18PMI have a modded TR-169 - Chuck McAlexander put a Bach independent valve-set on it with graceful, open wraps - not that clunky looking Bach wrap with 90 degree turns. I bought it from Jack Schatz a couple years ago and have never looked back. I have a 185 that may be in for a mod someday, if for no other reason than to update the valve linkages and split the dual thumb triggers.

Chris, you mean to say when you refitted the 281 bell you put it back with the original slide? Your comparison with the 185 bell is a little confusing and I presume it was comparing the 281 and 185 bell with the same slide.

As an aside, there was a screw-bell 183 on sale a while back that would be great for air travel. Ben van Dyke's screw bell Thein was in a nice flat case and he could take the paint off the far wall (tastefully, of course) when he was at the ETW a couple years ago.

George

When I said bell, I was talking of the actual flare... I unsoldered the 281 flare from the valve body, put the 185 flare on, didn't like the result and swapped the flares over again. Slides.... I just choose from the bunch.
On my 169, I have split the valve levers, but kept the whole second valve lever set-up detachable... I'll try to post pictures.

Chris Stearn

ttf_gbedinger · Post by **ttf_gbedinger** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:09 am

Thanks Chris, I understand now and realize you've taken modularity to a whole new level.

George

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:59 pm

Quote from: arrawarra on Feb 16, 2010, 02:19AMHello, I have just acquired a 42 year old Holton TR-180 and must admit very surprised how nice it is to play. Just wondering if there as anyone else out there playing one?

Hello, I'm playing TR180 and I was searching his madeing year...amazing! This horn has closer 96 years ago and it looks better that my Conn 88H (7years). LOL! Great sound, great horn and amazing surrounding. It's a really jewel and I'm really impressed for it. It was made 1921, Elkhorn, WIS. Now I name it: The Grand Pa

Best regards.

ttf_Charlietrbn · Post by **ttf_Charlietrbn** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:00 pm

Quote from: arrawarra on Feb 16, 2010, 02:19AMHello, I have just acquired a 42 year old Holton TR-180 and must admit very surprised how nice it is to play. Just wondering if there as anyone else out there playing one?

Hello, I'm playing TR180 and I was searching his madeing year...amazing! This horn has closer 96 years ago and it looks better that my Conn 88H (7years). LOL! Great sound, great horn and amazing surrounding. It's a really jewel and I'm really impressed for it. It was made 1921, Elkhorn, WIS. Now I name it: The Grand Pa

Best regards.

ttf_Charlietrbn · Post by **ttf_Charlietrbn** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:01 pm

Hello, I'm playing TR180 and I was searching his madeing year...amazing! This horn has closer 96 years ago and it looks better that my Conn 88H (7years). LOL! Great sound, great horn and amazing surrounding. It's a really jewel and I'm really impressed for it. It was made 1921, Elkhorn, WIS. Now I name it: The Grand Pa

Best regards.

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:55 am

Quote from: Charlietrbn on Nov 22, 2017, 08:01PMHello, I'm playing TR180 and I was searching his madeing year...amazing! This horn has closer 96 years ago and it looks better that my Conn 88H (7years). LOL! Great sound, great horn and amazing surrounding. It's a really jewel and I'm really impressed for it. It was made 1921, Elkhorn, WIS. Now I name it: The Grand Pa

Best regards.

Unless Im misunderstanding this quote TR 180s were not made in 1921. Not made before the late 1960s.

ttf_ssking2b · Post by **ttf_ssking2b** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:22 am

The TR 180 existed in the late 60s early 70s and was not very well received. The Tr180 that you guys are talking about was re-designed by Louis Van Haney. Pre-Production model became available at the end of 1972 - Mr Hayney got me one I still have. The actual production redesign by Hayney went on the market in the early part of 1973. The versions with the screw bells followed in a couple of years along with the inline version known as the TR 181.

The original pre-release version Mr Hayney picked out for me I have retired (but still own), the horn I presently use is a split trigger minick sryle altered version 19 serial numbers newer than the one Haney picked out for me. Probably on the bench the same week. 2 of the most phenomenal bass trombones I have ever played. I keep coming back to them from everything I have ever tried. They never Fail to deliver.

ttf_ssking2b · Post by **ttf_ssking2b** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:26 am

Sorry about my miss spellings etc. I am going thru this forum on my iPhone and spell check bites me often. Of course I notice AFTER I post so I look like and idiot. I may not be a spelling champion, but I can play my horn.

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:20 am

Quote from: ssking2b on Nov 23, 2017, 06:22AMThe TR 180 existed in the late 60s early 70s and was not very well received. The Tr180 that you guys are talking about was re-designed by Louis Van Haney. Pre-Production model became available at the end of 1972 - Mr Hayney got me one I still have. The actual production redesign by Hayney went on the market in the early part of 1973. The versions with the screw bells followed in a couple of years along with the inline version known as the TR 181.

The original pre-release version Mr Hayney picked out for me I have retired (but still own), the horn I presently use is a split trigger minick sryle altered version 19 serial numbers newer than the one Haney picked out for me. Probably on the bench the same week. 2 of the most phenomenal bass trombones I have ever played. I keep coming back to them from everything I have ever tried. They never Fail to deliver.

I have 2 TR 180s from the late 60's-both 9 and 1/2 inch bell flares. Excellent horns and in my opinion better than most 10 inch bell versions where the valve cluster is further away from the cross brace.

ttf_ssking2b · Post by **ttf_ssking2b** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:48 pm

I was loosely repeating what Haney had said to me. Holton wanted to up the game and got Haney involved. I, like you, love my Holtons and piffle on others if they dont. I have also played on a 180 with 9.5 bell, and it was fine, but for me the 10 with Haneys lead pipe workes the best. 47 years and counting and still on my Holtons!

ttf_mr.deacon · Post by **ttf_mr.deacon** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:54 pm

Quote from: ssking2b on Nov 25, 2017, 02:48PMI was loosely repeating what Haney had said to me. Holton wanted to up the game and got Haney involved. I, like you, love my Holtons and piffle on others if they dont. I have also played on a 180 with 9.5 bell, and it was fine, but for me the 10 with Haneys lead pipe workes the best. 47 years and counting and still on my Holtons!
The good Van Haney style TR180's are REALLY good. Definitely a different horn then the original 169 or early TR185 and TR180 instruments. Those old 169, TR185 and TR180's (with the 9 1/2" bell) are closer in relation to the Fuch's bass trombone then the later TR180's.

One of the best bass trombones I've ever played is a later mid 70's TR180 that a friend owns. Had a different character then the early TR185 I used to own.

ttf_boneagain · Post by **ttf_boneagain** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:55 pm

Quote from: ssking2b on Nov 25, 2017, 02:48PMI was loosely repeating what Haney had said to me. Holton wanted to up the game and got Haney involved. I, like you, love my Holtons and piffle on others if they dont. I have also played on a 180 with 9.5 bell, and it was fine, but for me the 10 with Haneys lead pipe workes the best. 47 years and counting and still on my Holtons!

Ah, but yours is particularly NICE Holton, Philip! Dangerous to try... makes a body want to steal away with it, since you can't get a new one like it now

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:59 am

185 owners prefer them over the 180. 180 owners prefer them over the 185. Apples and oranges.

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:51 pm

Does anyone actually know when the 1st 10 inch belled 180 was produced? I have two 9 and 1/2 inch versions that appear to be made in '69 so I'm assuming the 10 inch versions came after that.

ttf_bassboneman · Post by **ttf_bassboneman** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:38 am

I just measured my 180.
I assumed, incorrectly, that the bell on mine was 10" as well. It is a smidge over 9.5"
Sadly, mine is seriously modified. I have one I got from Noah with split trigger and Reynolds Contempra f attachment tubing. Minick style open D crook.
It plays pretty well.

Sam

ttf_MrPillow · Post by **ttf_MrPillow** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:27 am

I don't know exactly when the new mandrels were made, but it was in the range of 1971-1972.

ttf_mr.deacon · Post by **ttf_mr.deacon** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:12 pm

Quote from: bassboneman on Dec 04, 2017, 09:38AMI just measured my 180.
I assumed, incorrectly, that the bell on mine was 10" as well. It is a smidge over 9.5"
Sadly, mine is seriously modified. I have one I got from Noah with split trigger and Reynolds Contempra f attachment tubing. Minick style open D crook.
It plays pretty well.

Sam
I always smile when I see you post about my old horn.

That one was made in 1977 I think? That horn had a bunch of leaks when I got it and collected water like crazy which is why I had John Sandhagen rebuild the f attachment that way.

I'm almost positive the bell is 10" maybe it's one of those weird 9 3/4" bells but I remember it for sure being larger in diameter then my early TR185 was, which had a 9 1/2" bell.

I defifently want to try having another horn with Reynolds/German style tubing. I felt that the extra brace added farther down on the middle of the bell flare did something pretty special to how the horn played.

ttf_MrPillow · Post by **ttf_MrPillow** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:14 pm

In many cases the 10" Holton bell actually measures closers to 9-3/4"

ttf_ssking2b · Post by **ttf_ssking2b** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:13 am

Hayney picked mine out for me while I was studying with him in 1972. He said his version of the horn would be officially on the market in January or February of 1973.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:19 am

Quote from: ssking2b on Dec 06, 2017, 11:13AMHayney picked mine out for me while I was studying with him in 1972. He said his version of the horn would be officially on the market in January or February of 1973.

I think Phil is right on target. Mid-1973 seems about right, as Dick Reed, of the Denver SO, was playing the 180 for about two years when I met up with him in 1975.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:19 am

Quote from: ssking2b on Dec 06, 2017, 11:13AMHayney picked mine out for me while I was studying with him in 1972. He said his version of the horn would be officially on the market in January or February of 1973.

I think Phil is right on target. Mid-1973 seems about right, as Dick Reed, of the Denver SO, was playing the 180 for about two years when I met up with him in 1975.