Having books spiral bound?

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pompatus
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Having books spiral bound?

Post by pompatus » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:55 pm

Howdy, folks! Does anyone have advice for having the glued spine cut from a book and having it spiral bound? I’ve got a couple of books I’d like to have this done to, to make it easier to play from them and have them lie flat on the music stand, etc... Many years ago I had an Arban’s spiral bound by a local Staples copy center, and it came out horribly, so I’m hoping to avoid another sloppy job.

Thanks, for any insight you guys may have.

Terry
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matto
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Re: Having books spiral bound?

Post by matto » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:35 pm

I tried to have this done for the Raph version of the Borgdoni etudes, and it too went horribly. The print shop didn't ensure that the pages were aligned properly before making the holes for the comb and many pages didn't stay in the comb. That would be my only advice, have them make sure everything is lined up properly.
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ghmerrill
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Re: Having books spiral bound?

Post by ghmerrill » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:05 pm

I had this done at Kinko's -- believe it or not -- to Aharoni's New Method for the Bass Trombone. It was a little tricky since that book is a non-standard size. So I had them trim it down to about 9 1/4" x 11 3/4" so they could spiral bind it with the longest spiral they have. Watched them do it all in about 10 minutes, and it's great. It just narrowed the margins a bit. Turned that book from a cumbersome PITA into a very usable book on the stand. Don't remember what it cost, but it was their usual charge and only a few bucks. I can't imagine why the publisher produces it with the glued spine. Absolutely nuts.
Gary Merrill
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norbie2018
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Re: Having books spiral bound?

Post by norbie2018 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:29 pm

I imagine to produce any book is costly, but spiral binding drives up the cost even further and I don't know if publishers see the advantage. I have an old copy of The Virtuoso Trombone that is falling apart at the binding. From what I've read, I don't know if I'd spiral bind it.
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Re: Having books spiral bound?

Post by Neo Bri » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:28 pm

norbie2018 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:29 pm
I imagine to produce any book is costly, but spiral binding drives up the cost even further and I don't know if publishers see the advantage. I have an old copy of The Virtuoso Trombone that is falling apart at the binding. From what I've read, I don't know if I'd spiral bind it.
Why would spiral-binding be more expensive? It's a very simple process and is totally automated. I'd imaging that it's more expensive to glue the spine, particularly with the extra cover material and printing to encompass the spine.

I'm not sure about this, though, I'm just thinking about it.
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Re: Having books spiral bound?

Post by elmsandr » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:46 pm

Neo Bri wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:28 pm
norbie2018 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:29 pm
I imagine to produce any book is costly, but spiral binding drives up the cost even further and I don't know if publishers see the advantage. I have an old copy of The Virtuoso Trombone that is falling apart at the binding. From what I've read, I don't know if I'd spiral bind it.
Why would spiral-binding be more expensive? It's a very simple process and is totally automated. I'd imaging that it's more expensive to glue the spine, particularly with the extra cover material and printing to encompass the spine.

I'm not sure about this, though, I'm just thinking about it.
Packaging density? Glued spines cube out perfectly, spiral bindings will take up a little more space on the binding side, unless you engineer the spiral perfectly for the size of book.

Cheers,
Andy
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ghmerrill
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Re: Having books spiral bound?

Post by ghmerrill » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:27 pm

A huge number of spiral (or otherwise high-quality wire-bound) notebooks are sold at very reasonable prices. Just take a look at the "Black n' Red" series. And my copy of the Arban's tuba book is similarly bound (as published). Hard to believe that there's a definitive economic reason against spiral/wire-binding. But this is all speculation without knowing the actual numbers and costs involved. It could be nothing more than "tradition" and what a publisher is accustomed to. As an industry, publishing has historically been pretty slow to change its methods.
Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb Bass tuba
Mack Brass Compensating Euph
Amati Oval Euph
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/110 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)
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Re: Having books spiral bound?

Post by timothy42b » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:54 am

We have a machine at work. I bought my own combs and bound an Arbans on my lunch hour. I did a good job, but I did mess up a couple times and have to redo some pages, it takes a lot of care, but is worth it.

I also had Staples do one for me, and they did a good job too. Just inspect it and make them do it over if they miss a page. Mine did a print job for me that way single sided when I'd asked for double, and they re-did it without any resistance at all. If you do use them for print get 30 pound paper instead of the cheap 20 pound they start with.
pompatus
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Re: Having books spiral bound?

Post by pompatus » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:17 am

Gary,
The Aharoni is the book that initiated the discussion for me, what a funny coincidence.

Norbie,
Is your reluctance to rebind your copy of The Virtuoso Trombone due to the frailty of its current condition, or because you have doubts about the process/quality of a new binding?

Thanks, all, I appreciate the different perspectives and recommendations.
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Re: Having books spiral bound?

Post by AndrewMeronek » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:35 am

Spiral binding is great for a person with a small amount of binding. I have a spiral binding apparatus. The trickiest thing is, if the book to be bound is too thick for a single punch, making sure successive punches go in the same spot. Which is to say, it's not that tricky.

I do recommend plastic spiral, and to err on the big side of the spiral radius. Too small, and your pages will crush on each other as you turn pages. Plastic spiral won't permanently crush if you accidentally drop something on it.

I never unbound a glued spine, though. Sounds like that would have a lot of potential for damage.
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ghmerrill
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Re: Having books spiral bound?

Post by ghmerrill » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:46 am

AndrewMeronek wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:35 am
I never unbound a glued spine, though. Sounds like that would have a lot of potential for damage.
Yes, and this depends very much on the book. That's why with the Aharoni I had them just slice off that edge. There was enough left for the spiral binding, and the book didn't have to be "unbound".
Gary Merrill
Wessex EEb Bass tuba
Mack Brass Compensating Euph
Amati Oval Euph
1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba
Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/110 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)
timothy42b
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Re: Having books spiral bound?

Post by timothy42b » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:12 am

AndrewMeronek wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:35 am

I never unbound a glued spine, though. Sounds like that would have a lot of potential for damage.
It's been a while, but when I did the Arban (and it was a trumpet copy, that's what I use if I do Arban) I think I was able to peel outer layer of the backing and it came apart.

When you punch the sheets, as you say you have to be really careful to line up the holes. Trying to do too many at a time never works, and you have to line up in both directions.

I didn't do the whole book in one comb, either.

I have one smaller book where I scanned the pages, cleaned them up a bit, and brought them to Staples on a thumb drive. I had them print on heavy paper and bind. I wouldn't do that for an Arban size book though.
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Matt K
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Re: Having books spiral bound?

Post by Matt K » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:18 pm

I've had it done to a number of books by Office Depot. I prefer combs to spirals personally. They're easier to replace if they get bent in my experience. They also are easier to turn the pages for me.
norbie2018
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Re: Having books spiral bound?

Post by norbie2018 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:49 pm

pompatus wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:17 am
Gary,
The Aharoni is the book that initiated the discussion for me, what a funny coincidence.

Norbie,
Is your reluctance to rebind your copy of The Virtuoso Trombone due to the frailty of its current condition, or because you have doubts about the process/quality of a new binding?

Thanks, all, I appreciate the different perspectives and recommendations.
Both, but greater in my mind are the doubts about the process.

Regarding the expense of spiral binding, I took a grad course and needed a reference book. The spiral bound edition was around $5 more than the glued edition. I spent the extra cash so I could lay the darn thing flat. I assumed all spiral bound edition were more costly.
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Neo Bri
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Re: Having books spiral bound?

Post by Neo Bri » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:03 pm

norbie2018 wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:49 pm
pompatus wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:17 am
Gary,
The Aharoni is the book that initiated the discussion for me, what a funny coincidence.

Norbie,
Is your reluctance to rebind your copy of The Virtuoso Trombone due to the frailty of its current condition, or because you have doubts about the process/quality of a new binding?

Thanks, all, I appreciate the different perspectives and recommendations.
Both, but greater in my mind are the doubts about the process.

Regarding the expense of spiral binding, I took a grad course and needed a reference book. The spiral bound edition was around $5 more than the glued edition. I spent the extra cash so I could lay the darn thing flat. I assumed all spiral bound edition were more costly.
Perhaps more a product of supply and demand rather than production.
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Re: Having books spiral bound?

Post by whitbey » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:20 pm

Cutting the spine off is easy with a guillotine paper cutter.....if they know what they are doing. I would punch the book for a 3 hole binder rather then spiral. That way when pages tear you can copy them, punch them and put the back in the book.

I have also punched books with a second set of holes on the opposite side so I can turn pages over to make page turns easier. That is more on one sided things I print out.
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Re: Having books spiral bound?

Post by timothy42b » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:12 am

whitbey wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:20 pm


I have also punched books with a second set of holes on the opposite side so I can turn pages over to make page turns easier. That is more on one sided things I print out.
That is my standard practice. Any time I punch holes I punch both sides. I never know what side of a binder I'm going to want it on.
walldaja
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Re: Having books spiral bound?

Post by walldaja » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:43 pm

I had the best results at a FedEx. Rather than spiral bound, I opted for three hole punch and a binder to put it in. One time the tech managed to get the stack a little loose before he cut the binding and it was a problem. He then copied all of the pages, trimmed them to size, punched them, and gave me both them and the originals for no cost--he said it was his error. Nice customer service.
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