Bach 50 Leadpipe Change

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tromaarron
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Bach 50 Leadpipe Change

Post by tromaarron » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:20 pm

Hi all,
I've been playing on a Bach 50b for the last few years and am ready to experiment with a few different sounds, I mostly play within the contemporary big band idiom and although I've spent alot of time practicing technically I still can't get the sound or control i'm after and being in Australia don't have any used options (new horns are out of the question pricewise) Is there any leadpipe/mods that anyone may recommend for a more 'commercial' and free blowing sound?
Thanks!
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paulyg
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Re: Bach 50 Leadpipe Change

Post by paulyg » Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:52 pm

What mouthpiece are you using? Experimenting with a more v-cup piece, or smaller overall mouthpiece, may push your sound in the direction you want without changing the leadpipe.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't necessarily associate the words "commercial" and "free blowing." Commercial horns, esp. basses, are traditionally built a bit smaller- more malleable sound, with extreme dynamics coming from the microphone.
Paul Gilles
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tromaarron
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Re: Bach 50 Leadpipe Change

Post by tromaarron » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:11 am

Playing on an AR currently, about a 2g size and v shaped- have tried many other mouthpieces small and large.
Should have mentioned in the OP that the horn does feel quite stuffy throughout the range, having played a single trigger Conn bass years ago and trying Shires, Getzen, Holtons etc all feel as if though they have both bite and a more open feel , hence why thinking of experimenting with leadpipe/other mods
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BGuttman
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Re: Bach 50 Leadpipe Change

Post by BGuttman » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:21 am

Is this an older Bach 50B? If so, the ports in the rotor may be the older smaller size. Many have found that Bach 42's and 50's improve when the rotor ports are bored out.
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cozzagiorgi
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Re: Bach 50 Leadpipe Change

Post by cozzagiorgi » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:17 am

tromaarron wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:11 am
Playing on an AR currently, about a 2g size and v shaped- have tried many other mouthpieces small and large.
Should have mentioned in the OP that the horn does feel quite stuffy throughout the range, having played a single trigger Conn bass years ago and trying Shires, Getzen, Holtons etc all feel as if though they have both bite and a more open feel , hence why thinking of experimenting with leadpipe/other mods
Is your AR made of bronze?
I have one in bronze and it really opens the horn up and brings it definitely to the commercial side.
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mrdeacon
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Re: Bach 50 Leadpipe Change

Post by mrdeacon » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:46 am

The stock Bachs are usually a bit stiff down there because of the valves and oodles of bracing.

You can never go wrong with swapping the leadpipe out. Something like a Brass Ark NY50B pipe, MK Drawing Roberts pipe or even a Shires 2 or 2.5 bass pipe might work really well for you.

I have a theory that one reason small mouthpieces (1 1/2 and 2G sized stuff) feel so good in old Conn and Holton's is because they have fairly open blowing leadpipes in them. They get woody with big mouthpieces but focus nicely with small pieces.
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tromaarron
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Re: Bach 50 Leadpipe Change

Post by tromaarron » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:29 pm

cozzagiorgi wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:17 am
tromaarron wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:11 am
Playing on an AR currently, about a 2g size and v shaped- have tried many other mouthpieces small and large.
Should have mentioned in the OP that the horn does feel quite stuffy throughout the range, having played a single trigger Conn bass years ago and trying Shires, Getzen, Holtons etc all feel as if though they have both bite and a more open feel , hence why thinking of experimenting with leadpipe/other mods
Is your AR made of bronze?
I have one in bronze and it really opens the horn up and brings it definitely to the commercial side.
Just a regular silver one, am yet to try bronze but have heard cool things!
A local tech sells the Roberts leadpipe so I may go down that route, thanks everyone!
tromaarron
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Re: Bach 50 Leadpipe Change

Post by tromaarron » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:26 pm

BGuttman wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:21 am
Is this an older Bach 50B? If so, the ports in the rotor may be the older smaller size. Many have found that Bach 42's and 50's improve when the rotor ports are bored out.
1981-1982 on the serial, it feels just as stuffy without using the valves any ideas if boring would help with that too? Thanks
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Burgerbob
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Re: Bach 50 Leadpipe Change

Post by Burgerbob » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:19 pm

Some more modern valves will help a Bach a lot. Bachs can feel like you're playing into a pillow sometimes--it's not so much that they are stuffy, it's that they are muffling all your inputs.
Commercial horns are typically pretty efficient. It's possible to get a Bach this way, just takes some tweaking if the horn didn't start out easy.

My 50B3OG is strangely efficient, but not nearly so with the original slide- much better with my Shires dual bore or Edwards single bore.
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Re: Bach 50 Leadpipe Change

Post by brassmedic » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:58 pm

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dbwhitaker
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Re: Bach 50 Leadpipe Change

Post by dbwhitaker » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:35 pm

BGuttman wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:21 am
Is this an older Bach 50B? If so, the ports in the rotor may be the older smaller size. Many have found that Bach 42's and 50's improve when the rotor ports are bored out.
Who does this kind of work? (I purchased my 50B new in 1974.)
Playing again in 2019 after 40 year break (Bach 50B2).
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BGuttman
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Re: Bach 50 Leadpipe Change

Post by BGuttman » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:06 pm

dbwhitaker wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:35 pm
BGuttman wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:21 am
Is this an older Bach 50B? If so, the ports in the rotor may be the older smaller size. Many have found that Bach 42's and 50's improve when the rotor ports are bored out.
Who does this kind of work? (I purchased my 50B new in 1974.)
If you are in greater Boston, Osmun Brass (Acton, MA) does this. It used to be $100 per rotor, but that was some years ago.

I'm sure there are other techs across the country who can bore out Bach rotors.
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PhilE
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Re: Bach 50 Leadpipe Change

Post by PhilE » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:56 am

I have a Bach Corp 50 with Greenhoe valves (they are not stuffy).
When I got it came with what I think was a Greenhoe lead pipe. A very stable, not particularly flexible, dark sounding lead pipe.
I tried yellow and nickel silver GR pipes from MK Drawing. They just didn't feel or sound right.
I then purchased a MV50 from Brassark. Im very happy with it. Great sound and feel. Just right for this instrument.
Brass Ark is great place to do business and Noah is a great guy however the website says the delivery time for lead pipes is 6-8 weeks if not in stock. Mine took 22 weeks after several reminder emails. I guess they're busy.
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Re: Bach 50 Leadpipe Change

Post by Kbiggs » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:22 pm

MK also make an MK50 pipe which some say works better than their GR for Bach-style bells (larger throat, faster taper, one piece, soldered bead bells).
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