Slide stuff

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Bassbonechandler
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Slide stuff

Post by Bassbonechandler » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:34 am

I have just gotten my slide back from some dent work yesterday and I put trombotine on it in the usual way. It was great for a concert last night but this morning my slide isn't so great. I've been exclusively using trombotine on my slide and cleaning it every week with a cleaning rod and cheesecloth. I find that sometimes I have to wipe the inners and put more trombotine on almost every day to get the action I want. Suggestions?
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Matt K
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by Matt K » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:46 am

This *might* be an issue of tradeoffs. I've had some slides with great action.... but it was because they weren't sealing well. Once you actually align them they will sometimes have worse action just because they're making contact with the slide. More contact = more friction = worse slide movement.

I also had my slide done by the Slide Dr. which includes his teflon treatment which is good at getting out corrosion in the slide. Depending on if they cleaned the slide you might also be having corrosion coming off the slide. When I firs thad this done, I was really disappointed in the way it turned out but he did say to give it a week. Sure enough, a week of using trombotine after every rehearsal (at the time I was playing 8+ hours a day with3-6 rehearsals/performances each day)... it was a heck of a lot better. Just needed to be broken in.

By all means, contact the person who did the work and see if they have any suggestions but it might be one or both of the issues above.
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by Bassbonechandler » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:52 am

Matt K wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:46 am
This *might* be an issue of tradeoffs. I've had some slides with great action.... but it was because they weren't sealing well. Once you actually align them they will sometimes have worse action just because they're making contact with the slide. More contact = more friction = worse slide movement.

I also had my slide done by the Slide Dr. which includes his teflon treatment which is good at getting out corrosion in the slide. Depending on if they cleaned the slide you might also be having corrosion coming off the slide. When I firs thad this done, I was really disappointed in the way it turned out but he did say to give it a week. Sure enough, a week of using trombotine after every rehearsal (at the time I was playing 8+ hours a day with3-6 rehearsals/performances each day)... it was a heck of a lot better. Just needed to be broken in.

By all means, contact the person who did the work and see if they have any suggestions but it might be one or both of the issues above.
Were you spraying yours a lot with water?
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by Bassbonechandler » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:58 am

Also I forgot to mention, it feels like it is sticking/dragging in 1st/2nd and 4th.
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Matt K
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by Matt K » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:10 am

I suspect I did. It was a few years ago. I also haven't used water for... awhile. But I seem to remember it being more recently that I gave up water... without which, the action is marginally worse but it's very consistent and lasts forever. I thought it would take a long time to get accustomed to that change but I was over it in like 2 days and I only have to apply new lube after like... 20 hours of playing.
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by harrisonreed » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:52 pm

Bassbonechandler wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:34 am
I have just gotten my slide back from some dent work yesterday and I put trombotine on it in the usual way. It was great for a concert last night but this morning my slide isn't so great. I've been exclusively using trombotine on my slide and cleaning it every week with a cleaning rod and cheesecloth. I find that sometimes I have to wipe the inners and put more trombotine on almost every day to get the action I want. Suggestions?
Using it every day is not good. It will just build up and build up. That could be the problem.

If it is hanging between certain positions, there might be a dent or misalignment. I'd clean the outer with brass polish and start again with a tiny amount of trombotine. After you work it into the outer slide from the inner, wipe the inners. Apply a spray of water. I also use superslick at this point. Again, just a tiny amount.

If it still hangs, the shop probably cronked your slide.
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by Bonearzt » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:00 pm

Bassbonechandler wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:58 am
Also I forgot to mention, it feels like it is sticking/dragging in 1st/2nd and 4th.
Something's not aligned correctly in the bottom half.

Take it back to the shop pronto and have them redo it!


Eric
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by Bassbonechandler » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:02 am

Bonearzt wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:00 pm
Bassbonechandler wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:58 am
Also I forgot to mention, it feels like it is sticking/dragging in 1st/2nd and 4th.
Something's not aligned correctly in the bottom half.

Take it back to the shop pronto and have them redo it!


Eric
Could a small dent right before the crook be causing that?
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by Bonearzt » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:11 am

Bassbonechandler wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:02 am
Bonearzt wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:00 pm
Something's not aligned correctly in the bottom half.
Take it back to the shop pronto and have them redo it! Eric

Could a small dent right before the crook be causing that?
It would have to be closer to the bell to affect the upper positions, and a dent would only be felt in one place.
This sounds like an alignment issue.
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greenbean
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by greenbean » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:27 am

Perhaps you don't need a cream-type lube on it. What kind of horn is it?...
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by Bassbonechandler » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:23 am

greenbean wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:27 am
Perhaps you don't need a cream-type lube on it. What kind of horn is it?...
Greenhoe TIS. I did borrow some Yamaha snot and it worked quite well for the slide. I was going to buy some wrights and polish the inside of the outer slide.
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by hyperbolica » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:39 am

You might also try to remove the tuning section of the slide, and test the lower slide on its own to see if it's an alignment issue with the TIS. TIS slides are more susceptible to mechanical misalignment issues than other sides. I have a Kanstul TIS, and I just have to watch it to make sure the mechanism doesn't rack.
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by Pre59 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:22 am

Bassbonechandler wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:23 am
I was going to buy some wrights and polish the inside of the outer slide.
I recently polished the inside of a rose brass outer slide using Wrights brass polish. I wonder if there's a tarnish inhibiter in metal polishing products generally, because even though the slide has been checked and it's true, it was quite sluggish for a while.
I usually use SOM but strangely it didn't work right away until I'd applied some Trombotine first, and with applications since it's been business as usual, with no Trombotine needed.
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by Bassbonechandler » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:32 am

hyperbolica wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:39 am
You might also try to remove the tuning section of the slide, and test the lower slide on its own to see if it's an alignment issue with the TIS. TIS slides are more susceptible to mechanical misalignment issues than other sides. I have a Kanstul TIS, and I just have to watch it to make sure the mechanism doesn't rack.
I didn't know it was possible to remove the TIS part of the slide.
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by BGuttman » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:44 am

Bassbonechandler wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:32 am

I didn't know it was possible to remove the TIS part of the slide.
It is, but it can be tricky to get it back together. I'd strongly suggest taking it to a Tech if you aren't super confident in your mechanical abilities.
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Bassbonechandler
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by Bassbonechandler » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:02 am

Pre59 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:22 am
Bassbonechandler wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:23 am
I was going to buy some wrights and polish the inside of the outer slide.
I recently polished the inside of a rose brass outer slide using Wrights brass polish. I wonder if there's a tarnish inhibiter in metal polishing products generally, because even though the slide has been checked and it's true, it was quite sluggish for a while.
I usually use SOM but strangely it didn't work right away until I'd applied some Trombotine first, and with applications since it's been business as usual, with no Trombotine needed.
My slide is also rose brass, I was going to trying polishing it and maybe even trying the great slide stuff that the slide dr. uses until I can actually send my slide to him.
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by Posaunus » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:22 pm

Bassbonechandler wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:02 am
My slide is also rose brass, I was going to trying polishing it and maybe even trying the great slide stuff that the slide dr. uses until I can actually send my slide to him.
My guess is that your slide needs attention from a good technician (probably alignment) that cannot be addressed by experimenting with lubricants. This should be done by someone who knows what he's doing (probably not the repairman at your local music store). :idk:

The Slide Doctor is not the only one who could service your slide – just one of the better known. (Good marketing, eh?) There are many good slide techs around the U.S. – several of them TromboneChat members. See if you can get your slide to such a person soon before you damage the slide.

Good luck! :good:
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by hyperbolica » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:10 pm

Bassbonechandler wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:32 am

I didn't know it was possible to remove the TIS part of the slide.
I don't know exactly how the Greenhoe works, but on the Kanstul you just remove the hand slide, loosen the nut, and pull out the TIS section of the slide.

That top section is like the oversleeves and hand brace unsoldered from the outer slide tubes, which is why it is only minimally heavier than a regular slide.


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Pre59
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Re: Slide stuff

Post by Pre59 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:54 am

Bassbonechandler wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:02 am
Pre59 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:22 am


I recently polished the inside of a rose brass outer slide using Wrights brass polish. I wonder if there's a tarnish inhibiter in metal polishing products generally, because even though the slide has been checked and it's true, it was quite sluggish for a while.
I usually use SOM but strangely it didn't work right away until I'd applied some Trombotine first, and with applications since it's been business as usual, with no Trombotine needed.
My slide is also rose brass, I was going to trying polishing it and maybe even trying the great slide stuff that the slide dr. uses until I can actually send my slide to him.
If metal cleaners do have in inhibitor, will that have to come off before the slide works properly, and I also wonder if modern slides are being made to too tight a specification?
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