Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

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tskeldon
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Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by tskeldon » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:22 am

Hello,

A quick search revealed nothing about the practice of waxing 'lacquered' metal, so I apologize if I'm starting a redundancy. Elsewhere I started a thread about using FrogLube on the slide (in progress) as a progressive and alternative approach to 'moist' lubricants, and now I want to know what the prevailing thinking is about using one of the new light detail cleaner/waxes, such as are manufactured for cars by Mothers and Meguiars, as a ritual to wipe down the lacquer, especially at the contact points, when finished playing. They are all pH balanced to neutralize any acids present; at first semi-permeable to allow gassing-off, which then seal as they cure, all in seconds. It eliminates the possible threat of trapping acids under a coat of carnuba or any of the other old-school formulas. Thoughts?

Tim
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greenbean
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by greenbean » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:39 am

Lacquer needs wax?...
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BGuttman
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by BGuttman » Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:23 am

Some peoples' skin oils or sweat eats at lacquer. These people may need a wax coating to protect it.
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by peteedwards » Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:55 am

I've used wax, and floor polish, but only on un-lacquered horns after polishing to extend the life of the shine. I no longer do this as it was too much work to bother with.
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by davebb » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:36 pm

My kid plays a scruffy Yamaha euphonium with patches of scratched or missing lacquer. I rubbed the patches with a cloth with vinegar on to brighten them up. Washed it off thoroughly, then put some turtle wax on to keep the air away from the raw brass. The instrument looks much more respectable now -from a distance anyway.
Given the stories I’ve read about people struggling to remove Yamaha lacquer, I doubt that turtle wax will hurt it.
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by Bonearzt » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:17 pm

I just use Lemon Pledge furniture polish and a soft rag.


Eric
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by afugate » Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:23 am

Bonearzt wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:17 pm
I just use Lemon Pledge furniture polish and a soft rag.

Eric
Same here.

FYI, I find spraying the wax works much better than just wrapping the rag around the can and rubbing it across your horn. YMMV... :lol:

--Andy in OKC
tskeldon
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by tskeldon » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:05 am

Hi everyone,

Thanks for posting. For those of you who are younger players, you should know that you can wax anything without risk (assuming that it is just wax, and has no abrasives or harsh cleaners in it), to 'better' protect it from the caustic effect of the air, including air dry lacquer (which is thinner and less durable than the modern plastics); all of which as Bruce pointed though out can be damaged by the acids on your skin.

Wax (organic and synthetic) is a fatty substance that is solid at near ambient temperature, but which becomes soft, usually around 40 C. Most importantly, wax is insoluble in water. Many concerned people wax important glass, and even large glass panes. We have floor to ceiling glass all the way around our urban penthouse, and I have required our window washer to use Turtle Wax Cleaner on those large panes since it was new.

Six years later, we are the only people that don't have etching caused by pollution. Well, because of some people's body chemistry, simply wiping is not enough; especially if there are already micro pores (even in new lacquer poorly applied) in the spray finish. They wax fruit and all kinds of edibles because its properties can be so easily managed, it is non-toxic, and it is innert (doesn't react with things).

If you care about how things look, in addition to how they sound, I recommend that you try one of the very light formula spray cleaner waxes manufactured to maintain what are more or less 'clean' (grit free) automobiles. Your hands are more corrosive than simply pollution, which is why BASF paints (Mercedes, Ferrari, etc.) says that you don't need to wax their clear coat vehicles; unless you touch them all the time, which people usually don't do.

Ironically, guitarists have done it for years without needing to! The acids in your hand are far less reactive with wood; in those instances it is oils that saturate and damage the appearance (color), but not so too the cell structure of wood, which actually hardens as the oils crystallize, further protecting the woods surface.

Oh, and some of them smell very nice. Mmmmm...carnuba...beeswax, even better.

Tim
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by Stive2jones » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:17 pm

afugate wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:23 am
Bonearzt wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:17 pm
I just use Lemon Pledge furniture polish and a soft rag.

Eric
Same here.

FYI, I find spraying the wax works much better than just wrapping the rag around the can and rubbing it across your horn. YMMV... :lol:

--Andy in OKC
Lacquer needs wax???
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by BGuttman » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:53 am

Stive2jones wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:17 pm
afugate wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:23 am
Bonearzt wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:17 pm
I just use Lemon Pledge furniture polish and a soft rag.

Eric
Same here.

FYI, I find spraying the wax works much better than just wrapping the rag around the can and rubbing it across your horn. YMMV... :lol:

--Andy in OKC
Lacquer needs wax???
Needs? No. Can use? Yes. Waxes are good over lacquer to preserve a shine and some are also good over bare brass to slow down tarnish.
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by ghmerrill » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:27 am

I use Nu Finish (not really either a wax or a polish) when I manage to clean the exterior of my instruments at all. It works great for applications like this.
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by Leisesturm » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:56 am

PSA time: I'm not for a minute saying that using Detailing Wax or Turtle Wax or Lemon Pledge (aerosol) or anything else on a horn is bad for YOU. But it might be. What I know, however, is that someone who would use Turtle Wax on a horn probably doesn't know or care much* about how commercial products interact with the human body. They should. Why it matters? Because being careless around commercial products is the number one cause of Cancer there is. And Cancer is rapidly becoming the number one way for a person to die before their time. It is past time for any American under the age of 80 to act like EVERYTHING they come near could possibly kill them and understand what the best practices are for long term health and safety in a very different world from the one our grandparents grew up, lived, worked and played in. /PSA.
*yes, I know, I am very much generalizing. I apologize.
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by bbocaner » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:41 am

Windex. Cleans all the gunk off, doesn't leave anything behind. Works great on both lacquered and plated/raw instruments.
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by Bonearzt » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:34 pm

afugate wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:23 am
Bonearzt wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:17 pm
I just use Lemon Pledge furniture polish and a soft rag.
Eric
Same here.
FYI, I find spraying the wax works much better than just wrapping the rag around the can and rubbing it across your
horn. YMMV... :lol:
--Andy in OKC

Andy, don't make me come up there Man!!!!
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by TillE » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:45 am

bbocaner wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:41 am
Windex. Cleans all the gunk off, doesn't leave anything behind. Works great on both lacquered and plated/raw instruments.
I have no idea if ammonia is bad for lacquer (let's ask Dr. Guttman) but Windex contains it. They offer an ammonia-free version, however.

Lemon Pledge and just about any of the vast array of grocery store waxes contain detergents. Since I use a few drops of Dawn to make my horn look nice those detergents may be of no concern but some are stronger than others.

Finally, I see a number of "brass" polishing cloths are micro-fiber which will scuff the lacquer on your trombone. A well worn cotton towel is best.
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by etbone » Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:44 pm

TillE wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:45 am
bbocaner wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:41 am
Windex. Cleans all the gunk off, doesn't leave anything behind. Works great on both lacquered and plated/raw instruments.
I have no idea if ammonia is bad for lacquer (let's ask Dr. Guttman) but Windex contains it. They offer an ammonia-free version, however.

Lemon Pledge and just about any of the vast array of grocery store waxes contain detergents. Since I use a few drops of Dawn to make my horn look nice those detergents may be of no concern but some are stronger than others.

Finally, I see a number of "brass" polishing cloths are micro-fiber which will scuff the lacquer on your trombone. A well worn cotton towel is best.
Actually, it is the white vinegar, in Windex, you need to worry about. Anything, that is used to speed up a slow sink drain, can't be good for lacquer.
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by BGuttman » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:07 pm

The big issue with lacquer is whether it is porous. And that can vary from instrument to instrument.

Epoxy lacquer IKing, Conn, later Yamaha) is pretty inert to anything except strong alkalis like Drano or EZ-Off. Sometimes it can be affected by Methylene Chloride, but that is soon going to disappear from all shelves in the US.

Cellulose lacquer can be affected by some solvents.

If the lacquer is porous, either due to age or abuse, the ammonia can penetrate and cause lift. Ammonia can complex the copper in brass. Acetic acid (vinegar, white or otherwise) can remove the zinc in the brass leading to "red rot". But it has to get to the brass first. Note that both of these would be rather slow reactions on a trombone, and short exposures may not be a problem.
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by ssking2b » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:15 am

Been using a variety of non-abrasive waxes on all my horns for years. Butcher's wax was a good place to start, but it yellows over time. Nu Finish works well, or Blue Coral Autofom (if you can find it, and that is the correct spelling), the Slide Doctor's GREAT SLIDE SLIDE SEALER. Currently using Meguiar's ULTIMATE Quik WAX about once every 1-2 weeks. It works well and looks great.
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by Mamaposaune » Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:28 am

There is a product called "Weekend Waxer" by Hawaiian Island Shine (basically liquid carnauba) that works great. I get tarnish off my handgrip area the I didn't even know was there, and it leaves a light wax coating that last for awhile. I've even used it for a quick polish on my unlacquered Olds and sackbut.
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by BurckhardtS » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:17 pm

I'd actually be curious to trying this, as I eat through lacquer pretty quickly. I ate through so much lacquer on my Edwards before I sold it, and I had only had it for 4.5 years. (Did play on it nearly every day though)
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Re: Automotive Detailing Spray Wax/Cleaner for routine maintenance

Post by ssking2b » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:32 am

You may need something a little thicker or tougher. Check out this page:
https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/10 ... ryl-knight

Just do a little extra research and make sure the product is abrasive free. Spray on stuff is easier to apply, but you may find a creme or paste wax lasts longer. I have been doing this to horns for years, and while it wont completely stop your body chemicals from eating lacquer, it certainly helps!
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