TromboneChat

Hi , I need a single valve bass trombone for occasional doubling . I am looking at a Yamaha 421G and a JP Rath 233 for about half the price .Is the Yamaha worth the extra as a long term proposition ?

There's a Yamaha 322R listed here on the classifieds that looks to be in good shape. Check it out!

Here's a link:

https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5865

Thanks Pompatus , I would prefer one that I can try first and I am unfortunately not in the same country as the seller.

I have a JP 233 as my backup single plug bass. It's very good. A bit shoutier than my R8, and the valve action not quite as snappy as the Rotax R8. But it's very good. My only complaint is that it doesn't pull to E.

421G would hold its price well. But a used 321 or 322 is even cheaper, and quite easy to find too. Just watch carefully for the chrome plating loss on the inner slide.

As a ridiculous suggestion, if you are willing to an extra (BIG extra) cash I would recommend YBL-822G and remove that second removable valve

I'd say a Conn 72H would be a horn to consider if one presented itself. Can't speak to the two horns in the original post directly either.

I don't really know all the yamaha or Rath, but they should be good. I know the Conn trombones and they are good, if you find some that are in good condition. For doubling I think it's best to find one that is easy to play, best to try first? I'm not sure.
Leif

You're severely limiting yourself by trying before you buy. If you buy a quality instrument like a Bach, Yamaha, Conn, Holton or Kanstul; you won't have to worry about getting a lemon because chances are the instrument is good.

Look into getting a vintage Conn 72H, 71H or Bach 50B. You can get them for under $1000 and they play better than even some modern horns.

I have never purchased a "new" instrument and I have only purchased one of my horns in person. Everything else I purchased off the internet without having tried the horn. If you're smart and looking for a reliable seller and purchase I horn that hasn't been too used and abused, you should have a horn that'll last you the rest of your life.

The Holton 183's from the 70's are great. Mine is the easiest to play of any horn I've tried, small or large. Great if you can find one.

Conn 110 H. Highly recommended.

GeeSamYouWell wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:44 am The Holton 183's from the 70's are great. Mine is the easiest to play of any horn I've tried, small or large. Great if you can find one.

Same here. I also had a 183 from this era and although I didn't know it at the time, it was the most playable horn I've ever had. I also sold it, alas...

The Yamaha model 321 and 322 can be found at a good price. If you want a cheap single you should definitely look out for one of those.

/Tom

i bought the Yamaha 322R that was for sale on this forum to use in the big band that I play in and so far I like it very much. I'm still getting used to the larger mp and the occasional playing in the upper range that big band charts sometimes require as well as the slightly heavier weight compared to a large bore tenor, but the Yamaha is flexible, sounds great in the low range, has a very nice slide and does what I want it to do.

The only thing I really miss is the springs in the slide that my Blessing B88 has. I get a bit too much "clunk" when I rapidly move into 1st position which the springs cushioned. My small bores don't have springs, but somehow I didn't notice it as much on them.

You have to relearn so you never play any notes with the slide in a closed position. The only note I play on a closed first position on a horn with f-valve is the low F on T1.

/Tom

Thank you all for your thoughts. In the end I went for a Yamaha 421 after comparing it to other bass trombones and I am very happy with it!

Out of curiosity, can you add a plugin valve to a 421 like on the 622/822?

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:39 am Out of curiosity, can you add a plugin valve to a 421 like on the 622/822?

No you cannot add another valve without taking it apart first.

Looks like the wrap is identical to the other dependent Yamaha horns. If you could get your hands on one, I don't see any reason why you couldn't add a second valve to it without much of an issue. (Edit: "too much of an issue" is, of course relative as you don't have a second lever so you'll have to at least source parts and possibly modify the loop but compared to engineering something from scratch it is comparatively easy).

I think the 421 would be a great candidate for a plug-in second valve - in terms of balance and the mechanics of the needed linkage.