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S.E. Shires tru-bore™ valve

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:27 pm
by LarryPrestonRoberson
I wasn’t sure which sub-forum in which to post this. Sorry, if it’s the wrong place.

Anyway, I’m soliciting opinions about the S.E. Shires tru-bore™ valve for tenor trombone. Specifically, how does the throw (actuation) compare to that of traditional and axial valves? I know the flow/blow is supposed to be a compromise between traditional and axial valves. What I’m more concerned with is the actuation. I love my Instrument Innovations axial valve—the only axial I’ve ever liked. But, I cannot get used to the throw; I’ve played traditional rotors for years. Obviously, it is always best to try before you buy, but I have the option to buy a used tru-bore valve at a great price. So, I’m curious about others who have tried the tru-bore valve. I especially welcome input from players who have also played traditional and axial valves and can offer a comparison of the throw/actuation of all three valve types. Thanks!

Re: S.E. Shires tru-bore™ valve

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:34 pm
by Neo Bri
I feel that Tru-Bores have a very short throw and a very tight spring. I also feel that, for some reason (possibly the lateral pressure of the tight spring) the screw holding the lever onto the brace seems to like to back out. I've had several.

Re: S.E. Shires tru-bore™ valve

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:39 pm
by mrdeacon
The throw is very nice. A tad longer then rotors but way shorter then axials. The blow is different... in a good and bad way... some people like then some people don't. I spent a lot of time in my undergrad on a dependent set for bass and decided they weren't for me.

Just a heads up, for some people they are very unergonomic. Where the F attachment lever is placed is in a bad place for some people. At least the older bass sets were all pretty funky maybe the tenor setups aren't as wacky.

It might be worth it to look into getting the throw adjusted on your axial valves. If you like the blow that much you should try adjusting the throw and see if you can get a easy fix there. They'll still have a longer throw but you get them to have a less ridiculous throw.

Re: S.E. Shires tru-bore™ valve

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:12 pm
by pompatus
Neo Bri wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:34 pm ...I also feel that, for some reason (possibly the lateral pressure of the tight spring) the screw holding the lever onto the brace seems to like to back out...
The ones I’ve tried out, on friend’s horns, have all had issues with the screw frequently backing out. Without fail the screw would back out and make the linkage bind. Make sure to keep an appropriately sized screwdriver in your case.

Re: S.E. Shires tru-bore™ valve

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:15 pm
by Burgerbob
Have you had the throw on your axial worked on?

Re: S.E. Shires tru-bore™ valve

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:49 am
by elmsandr
So, I have two Trubore valve sets... Both Bass. One a single, the other a dependent. I have none of the screw issues mentioned, but I will note that I had to adapt each of these valve sets to an existing horn, so the saddles were moved to different braces. Maybe I did something in that process that made it not back out. dunno.

The throw is nice, for comparison to my other horns, it is shorter than my axials by a mile, and it is also shorter than the under the thumb Bach rotor I have.

If you want to stick with your Instrument Innovations axial, they have an improved lever and linkage set for them. If you do not have one of those, maybe give that a try first. Definitely less expensive than a new valve section.

Cheers,
Andy

Re: S.E. Shires tru-bore™ valve

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:06 am
by Matt K
The throw is really short on them but they require a pretty decent amount of maintenance to make their action smooth. AI also don't like the positioning of the lower tube. I play with a thumb rest and it gets in the way of it. I love the way they play otherwise and if it weren't for those two things, I'd still probably be playing on one.


Their basses do a sort-of German wrap where the initial port goes up instead of bending back:
bass_trubores.gif

I think if their tenors were like this, I'd probably not have sold the one that I played for nearly 5 years.

Re: S.E. Shires tru-bore™ valve

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:07 am
by Matt K
Tenor, for comparison:
.

Re: S.E. Shires tru-bore™ valve

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:30 pm
by mrdeacon
Matt K wrote: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:06 am I also don't like the positioning of the lower tube. I play with a thumb rest and it gets in the way of it. I love the way they play otherwise and if it weren't for those two things, I'd still probably be playing on one.
I wish I had taken a picture when I had the set... but I had John Sandhagen modify my bass set so that F trigger was placed higher then the stock setup.

So you know how the stock trigger is positioned really low? John rotated the main brace with the saddle on it out, made a new set of levers which was longer (but the throw was actually even shorter) that went over the lower tubing instead of through it (this was possible because the main brace was rotated out), and positioned the trigger paddle so it was higher like a stock set of rotors.

That might not make sense with words... but trust me it worked haha. The stock Shires setup just seemed really lazy to me... like they put all this work into designing a new valve set and randomly slapped a f trigger on the valve set and called it a day.

Re: S.E. Shires tru-bore™ valve

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:35 am
by BoneDoctor
I have a set of Axials on my bass and a Tru-Bore on my LB Tenor. I have an observation that hasn't been mentioned yet, and will then echo some previous statements.
The beauty of the Tru-Bore is that when the valve is not engaged air flows in a straight shot right through the valve. It plays like a straight horn. When the valve is engaged, I notice a very slight increase in resistance. To be clear the valve flows very well even when engaged. However, the difference is requiring me to learn to play second space C differently in 6th vs V1. The twin Axials on by Bach Bass have the same pattern of air flow whether they are engaged or not. Therefore, I am able to use the same air pressure and embrasure regardless of how I play the C mentioned above or a 4th space Gb in 5th or with the second valve, etc. This gives me lots of options for alternate positions. Having said that, I love love love my Shires, and since I usually don't use the trigger when playing that horn and all of my other tenors are straight horns, I would opt for the Tru-Bore again. I need to replace my Bach soon due to brass rot on the slide. Since I use the valves much more on the bass, I will probably get a Shires with independent Axials. I have an appointment at the Shires factory in November. We'll see what I come home with.
Echoing other statements: I agree the throw is shorter, I agree the spring is tighter. For me, the tight spring slows me down and offsets the quickness of the short throw. Like others have stated, it looks like the Tru-Bore will need slightly more frequent tune ups than my Axials. Also echoing others, you don't know what works for you until you play it. The cost of my plane ticket from Seattle to LA was well worth the money as The Horn Guys had a nice inventory of Shires parts as well as other brands for me to try out.
Therefore, my opinion in short is: If you use your trigger infrequently get a Tru-Bore. It will play just like a straight horn. If you use your trigger a lot and need consistency of flow and resistance, get an axial.
Very long post. Hope it was helpful. Good luck with your decision.

Re: S.E. Shires tru-bore™ valve

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:44 pm
by BillO
pompatus wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:12 pm
Neo Bri wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:34 pm ...I also feel that, for some reason (possibly the lateral pressure of the tight spring) the screw holding the lever onto the brace seems to like to back out...
The ones I’ve tried out, on friend’s horns, have all had issues with the screw frequently backing out. Without fail the screw would back out and make the linkage bind. Make sure to keep an appropriately sized screwdriver in your case.
A drop of blue Locktite would end this.

Re: S.E. Shires tru-bore™ valve

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:56 am
by GabrielRice
Levers can be adjusted with any type of valve. There are some limits to what the geometry will allow, but there's always a range of possibility. I don't like where Shires puts the F lever on their bass Tru-bore sets, so mine is modified to put it where I like it.

Spring tension can be adjusted too.

I like the Tru-bore valve a lot, but you never need to buy a whole new valve section because of the levers.

That said, axial valves will always have a longer throw than other types.

Re: S.E. Shires tru-bore™ valve

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:06 am
by LarryPrestonRoberson
I thought I might resurrect this post. I ended up purchasing a pre-owned tru-bore several months ago. I haven't had much time to play it. Shires recommends Hetman products as does the original owner. Any opinions on piston oil vs. light rotor? Speaking of lubricants, it was recently chem cleaned and unfortunately my tech used traditional petroleum based lubricants when he reassembled and lubricated it. It is definitely a little more sluggish than I'd like. I used to do disassembly/reassembly and cleaning in a repair shop. I've had experience with nearly every make/model/style of rotor and axial flow valve. So, I feel fairly confident with the task of disassembly/reassembly and cleaning. But, I've never actually taken apart a tru-bore. Is there anything I should be particularly cautious about or any special considerations? Any special tools needed?

Re: S.E. Shires tru-bore™ valve

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:14 am
by Matt K
LarryPrestonRoberson wrote: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:06 am I thought I might resurrect this post. I ended up purchasing a pre-owned tru-bore several months ago. I haven't had much time to play it. Shires recommends Hetman products as does the original owner. Any opinions on piston oil vs. light rotor? Speaking of lubricants, it was recently chem cleaned and unfortunately my tech used traditional petroleum based lubricants when he reassembled and lubricated it. It is definitely a little more sluggish than I'd like. I used to do disassembly/reassembly and cleaning in a repair shop. I've had experience with nearly every make/model/style of rotor and axial flow valve. So, I feel fairly confident with the task of disassembly/reassembly and cleaning. But, I've never actually taken apart a tru-bore. Is there anything I should be particularly cautious about or any special considerations? Any special tools needed?
I've been told that the light rotor and piston are the same thing but sold in different quantities. Can't prove it though. But I've used piston oil in ists stead for years and been fine. It was my go-to when I had a trubore.