Single Bore or Dual Bore?

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fwbassbone
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Single Bore or Dual Bore?

Post by fwbassbone » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:40 am

I was talking to another trombone player recently about dual bore slides. He had never played one and wanted to know the differences and wondered if he should get one for his Edwards. I explained that dual bore slides have been around for a long time and that one wasn't any better than the other just different. I told him he needed to try the individual horn because it would be a combination of the parts not just one element. So for the benefit of those of us on here who don't have experience with both types of slides perhaps you can comment about your experiences with each.
hyperbolica
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Re: Single Bore or Dual Bore?

Post by hyperbolica » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:59 am

It really depends on what you're talking about. The King 2b is a very popular dual bore. Conn 32h is something people go back and forth on. The Bach 16 is another popular one. In my opinion, a 562/578 bass slide is just too big for a regular bass bone, but that's me. I like 547/562 for an oversize tenor to play bass parts. There were some Holton symphonic tenors that had 562 bottom slides.

All my favorite horns have turned out to be straight bore, and I've wound up getting rid of my dual bore horns. That wasn't really a conscious decision, it just worked out that way.

It is sometimes said that with a dual bore you get the blow of the top bore and the sound of the bottom bore. You really have to play a couple and decide for yourself. Each dual bore is different, it's tough to characterize them as a set.
down8ve
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Re: Single Bore or Dual Bore?

Post by down8ve » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:20 am

Ever since the '80s many folks began favoring the LARGE dual-bore slide in the Us (562/578). Many "German" basses have used dual-bores that are smaller, 547/562. According to builders I've asked, like Markus Leuchter, the smaller dual-bore is good for maintaining enough presence in the core of the sound to separate it as a distinctive voice from the tuba. Christoph Schwarz and Ben Van Dijk are two quick examples.

I played a large dual-bore for 8 years subbing for two very different orchestras in the US. What I learned is if you want to go for the smoother sound popular in this country the large dual-bore could help.

If you wish for a bit more zing in your sound you might be happier with the single-bore.

Of course there are a million variations on the theme due to everything else on the horn! Take the Schagrel Aurora: 562/578 slide, but lots of presence compared to the 1023-belled dual-bore Eddie with Thayers. But in general if everything else remains the same, you may experience the difference I mention above.

Worth a try. They will play differently, 50/50 chance it could create a positive change in response and playability, too.

Good luck,
Scott
Last edited by down8ve on Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
down8ve
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Re: Single Bore or Dual Bore?

Post by down8ve » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:21 am

Of course I was speaking as a bass trombonist, there.

Scott
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Burgerbob
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Re: Single Bore or Dual Bore?

Post by Burgerbob » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:39 am

I made the switch for an Edwards dual bore on my bass a year and change ago. Most of my sound models play them, after all. I found it added just a smidge of weight to the sound and made the horn easier to play.

There are, of course, drawbacks. The slot is much larger for every note, requiring more intense focus at the chops and the ears. It also takes more air for any given pitch.

If I didn't have the time to put in at least a couple hours a day on the bass, I probably would play my single bore Edwards slide instead.
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whitbey
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Re: Single Bore or Dual Bore?

Post by whitbey » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:52 am

The choice is almost as personal as a mouthpiece.
I play dual bore on almost every horn I have. I get the sensation of blowing the horn off my face. That causes me to do bad things with my face. I also have a poor feeling in my face that is not consistent from neurological feelings. The dual bore lets my air flow more. This in turn lets me play with and because of air rather than concerning myself with the position or tension in my chops.
The only horn I have that is single bore is my bass. I do not play it often and it is big enough that air does just flow anyways.
Resistance is good and open is good. Balance is better. Try it all and find what fits you best.


I guess the Pbone is also single bore but I guess the graphite slide lets the air slide though better.
Ndwood
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Re: Single Bore or Dual Bore?

Post by Ndwood » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:52 am

I switched to a Shires dual bore slide on my Bach 50 and for me and my playing it was a huge improvement. Comparing both with the same leadpipe (Brass Ark seamed copper MV50) it actually slots better with less effort and lets me play with a more even sound across the entire range of the instrument. The high register is noticeably easier and Ab/G above the staff slot much better. It does take a tiny bit more air to play, especially if you're trying to push against it and get edge in the low register, but it's a smaller difference than I was expecting. I was planning on keeping the single bore Bach slide for when I need a lighter sound or some bark in the low register, but I haven't been in a situation that I felt like my dual bore slide didn't work for. There have been a few things where I've used my tenor bell with the Bach 50 slide and 1.5G mouthpiece though. BUT I tend to prefer pretty large equipment so you might have the opposite experience if you prefer smaller.

For whatever reason for large tenor I also strongly prefer single bore slides to dual. I've gone back and forth between .547 and .562 on tenor but have never liked the way my instrument responded with a dual bore slide.
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Matt K
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Re: Single Bore or Dual Bore?

Post by Matt K » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:15 pm

I almost always gravitate towards dual bore slides. My most recent acquisition, a YSL356 is replacing my Shires 508/508 in my lineup as my all around commercial horn even. I often find that they give me some of the feel of the upper slide but more of the sound of the lower slide. Usually that's what I'm after. In other words - and this is a huge generality that is admittedly an over simplification - I want a 'medium bore' sound with a 'small bore' feel and the 356 gives me basically just that. It doesn't give me either of them totally (as in, it still feels bigger than a 500/500 and sounds 'smaller' than a 525/525), but whatever it is about the balance I really dig.

I also really like my 525/547 slide too I have for my Shires bell. Gives me the same kind of thing; most of the focus of a medium bore with the 'halo' of sound of a large bore. The 525/547 is a bit of an exception to the general rule too because it's really, really flexible with the options of both large and small shank mouthpieces.
imsevimse
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Re: Single Bore or Dual Bore?

Post by imsevimse » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:54 pm

hyperbolica wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:59 am
It is sometimes said that with a dual bore you get the blow of the top bore and the sound of the bottom bore. You really have to play a couple and decide for yourself. Each dual bore is different, it's tough to characterize them as a set.
Yes I agree completely. The blow is like the upper pipe but with a broader sound. My Yamaha 356 is dual bore (.500/.525) and feels like a .500 horn same with my Kanstul 760 (.500/.530). The most popular small bore dual bore trombone must be the King 2b.

/Tom
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BassBoneWadie99
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Re: Single Bore or Dual Bore?

Post by BassBoneWadie99 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:18 pm

I play bass trombone and had played on both single and dual bore slides. I use a dual bore on my current Getzen 1062 for a couple years. And to be frank, dual bores aren't really my cup of tea and will sell my current bass in the near future. I mostly do jazz and wind/symphony when given the chance. I found the dual bore difficult to use personally in jazz when trying to blend with the tenors (all of which are stright small bores) when playing 4th/bass. Dual bores are a little to big and free blowing for my taste and I'm already using a larger mouthpiece which doesn't help much for what I mostly do. When I messed around on basses with single bores, it just felt better for me and it felt a lot easier to play with all the ranges. However, that's just my take on it and see what works for you and not what the pros mostly use.
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