Well, Here's a New One...

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Neo Bri
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Well, Here's a New One...

Post by Neo Bri » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:33 am

So, I've been perusing for a nice, NICE used French horn (Geyer wrap preferred, hint hint), and came upon this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Triple- ... SwbopZWa3J

By my count I believe that's ten valves. At least it's a screw bell. I'm not sure about what case would work, though.
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Finetales
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by Finetales » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:23 am

We talked about this at length on the Horn People Facebook page. For that price I have no idea why you wouldn't buy a Wessex triple for over $1k less which is proven to work properly (and not look ridiculous). Also that thing looks like it's massively heavy.

Other than this monstrosity, that seller actually usually keeps a decent stock of nice used horns. I'm actually interested in their custom work too, because on their website they say that they can make anything you want (including from scratch) and judging by the prices they've been selling their other custom projects on eBay it seems like a custom job would be reasonably priced.
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JohnL
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by JohnL » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:42 am

They should probably add the horn equivalent to an Ergobone. Might make that monster an easier sell.

https://eastop.net/classical-hornplaying/the-pipstick/

Given the skills necessary to build the horn itself, they should have no trouble building something like a pipstick.
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Neo Bri
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by Neo Bri » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:57 am

Finetales wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:23 am
We talked about this at length on the Horn People Facebook page. For that price I have no idea why you wouldn't buy a Wessex triple for over $1k less which is proven to work properly (and not look ridiculous). Also that thing looks like it's massively heavy.

Other than this monstrosity, that seller actually usually keeps a decent stock of nice used horns. I'm actually interested in their custom work too, because on their website they say that they can make anything you want (including from scratch) and judging by the prices they've been selling their other custom projects on eBay it seems like a custom job would be reasonably priced.
Oh, I'm not interested in buying it. I just thought others would be interested in seeing it.
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Tooloud
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by Tooloud » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:07 pm

But comparing a true Alexander to a Wessex....? :roll: You would trade the Hoy Grail to a carboard coffee cup? @Finetales, do you know, what you are talking about?

Even my 103 regular double is heavy! Heavier on my left arm than my bass trombone, which itself is quite a tank. Hornbuilding is a very interesting and individual matter. Not as standardized as building trombones.
I think this model at that price is a bargain, if it is a true Alex. In Europe this wouldn't go for that ridiculous price. A gambler could buy this in the US and offer it worldwide at 10k...
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by boneagain » Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:00 am

This is NOT a true Alexander. The seller is VERY clear on that. It is a prototype using a number of different parts to test out some concepts for implementing a triple. In addition to the extra valves there is a valve right in the branch, and a shortened lead pipe. The seller is quite clear on exactly what the horn is. To me it DOES look like a very interesting experiment.

But to get out of the Wessex league, it would need to look and PLAY more like this: http://www.mccrackenhorns.com/McCracken ... rpl.html#2
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Finetales
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by Finetales » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:07 am

Tooloud wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:07 pm
But comparing a true Alexander to a Wessex....? :roll: You would trade the Hoy Grail to a carboard coffee cup? @Finetales, do you know, what you are talking about?
...what?

The only thing Alex about that horn is some of the valves. Also...Alexanders from all eras are extremely inconsistent so those components could easily be dogs.

Do YOU know what you're talking about?
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by whitbey » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:02 am

Seem like you could add a small trombone slide to that.
Super horn!?!?!?
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Tooloud
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by Tooloud » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:56 pm

Finetales wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:07 am
...what?

The only thing Alex about that horn is some of the valves. Also...Alexanders from all eras are extremely inconsistent so those components could easily be dogs.

Do YOU know what you're talking about?
On Alex: The newer ones are very consistent - and everyone I heard and / or put my mouthpiece on was great in every aspect of craftmanship and sound. Maybe, because it's been a dream to own one for so long long, maybe because I live in the neighbourhood, so I may be a little preoccupied about the brand. But the people at Alexanders in Mainz are all very fine craftsmen und persons.

On this one: No, It might have been too early this morning, so I didn't accurately read the description. My fault!

Last: No, you can't compare are real Alexander, Schmid, Comford, Dürk, Otto etc to a chinese made Wessex. No way. Chinese made instruments may be quite ok these days, but they all still lack something. As you can't compare a Toyota to a Porsche. Btw, I own a Toyota, my girl a Porsche (right job, eh?), so I know...
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by Finetales » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:17 pm

Tooloud wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:56 pm
Last: No, you can't compare are real Alexander, Schmid, Comford, Dürk, Otto etc to a chinese made Wessex. No way. Chinese made instruments may be quite ok these days, but they all still lack something. As you can't compare a Toyota to a Porsche. Btw, I own a Toyota, my girl a Porsche (right job, eh?), so I know...
With horns, definitely. They're not there yet. Some of Wessex's low brass are phenomenal. But I would definitely not try to say that a Wessex triple is anywhere near as good as one of the established triples. But for someone who wants a triple without taking out a second mortgage? Can't be beat. As this 8D/Olds/Alex 10-valve Franken-triple is $5k I would still choose the Wessex first. It's a cool experiment though.
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BillO
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by BillO » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:01 pm

10?

I count 3 double layer valves and one single layer valve that changes between the layer of the other valves. Even if you count the double layer valves as 2 valves, that give 7. How do you get 10? Just curious.
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by Neo Bri » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:45 pm

BillO wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:01 pm
10?

I count 3 double layer valves and one single layer valve that changes between the layer of the other valves. Even if you count the double layer valves as 2 valves, that give 7. How do you get 10? Just curious.
I saw 10 spinny things that looked like valve caps, so I figure 10 valves.
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by BillO » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:53 pm

Neo Bri wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:45 pm
I saw 10 spinny things that looked like valve caps, so I figure 10 valves.
Ahhh, well it sure is eye candy and looks very well built in those photos. Wheter it has only 4 valves or 10, it would be very cool to have 'n' hold.

Here's hoping you go for it and let us know what it plays like.
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by JohnL » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:00 am

BillO wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:01 pm
I count 3 double layer valves and one single layer valve that changes between the layer of the other valves. Even if you count the double layer valves as 2 valves, that give 7. How do you get 10? Just curious.
It's easier to see in the second pic.Image

That is a lot of valves.
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BillO
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by BillO » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:02 am

Holy guacamole! How did I miss that!!!
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BGuttman
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by BGuttman » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:38 am

You're going to need several left thumbs to work all the "shift" valves!!!
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boneagain
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by boneagain » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:55 am

BGuttman wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:38 am
You're going to need several left thumbs to work all the "shift" valves!!!
Many of those 10 valves are ganged: one lever operates more than one rotor.

So, there are two side-by-side thumb levers and three main levers.

No worse than early double valve bass trombones.
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by JohnL » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:41 am

boneagain wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:55 am
BGuttman wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:38 am
You're going to need several left thumbs to work all the "shift" valves!!!
Many of those 10 valves are ganged: one lever operates more than one rotor.

So, there are two side-by-side thumb levers and three main levers.

No worse than early double valve bass trombones.
Or the standard configuration for most triple horns. It's just that on a normal triple, the main valveset uses triple-decker valves and the changeovers are double-deckers. On this horn, each changeover is a pair of ganged single-plane valves, the F alto and B flat paths run through a set of dual-planes, and the F basso path runs through a separate set of single-planes (ganged to the dual plane set).

I suspect they used single-plane change valves to allow more flexibility in where the valves were placed, while they had to gang the main set because they didn't have any triple-plane valves laying around.

You think this one looks wild? Ever seen a Veneklasen horn?
Last edited by JohnL on Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Well, Here's a New One...

Post by Vegastokc » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:00 am

Looks like something Trent Hamilton needs to review and put on his wall.
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