TromboneChat

Hi, what do you think are the best complement to a .547 f att rose brass bell.

Straight .508 Yellow? Rose brass?
Straight .500 Yellow ? Rose brass?
Other?

A 508 horn is hard to beat. I play mine in concert band, jazz band, orchestra pits and occasionally quintet. 500 is nice too but leans a little more towards lead parts in jazz band. But we're only talking about .008 difference in bore, so few people will really notice. A mouthpiece makes a bigger difference than that.

Is a rose brass bright enough to cut out for lead?

mickael57280 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:00 am Is a rose brass bright enough to cut out for lead?

Really depends on you. For some it's fine. For others, not.

With specs like this, the classic choices would be a Conn 88H, Bach 42BG, Yamaha YSL- 620, or a King 4B/F to name a few.

Also, since you brought up lead playing, using a large bore with an F-attachment can be a lot of work (especially in jazz.)

Maybe a .525 with F-attachment, like a Conn 79H for example? A Conn 79H is basically a Conn 88H with a 8 inch bell and a .525 slide bore. Even a Bach 36BG or a Yamaha YSL-640 (a .525 version of the 620) are good candidates. .525 horns are great for all round playing, especially is you mostly play first parts in wind ensemble and lead in jazz for example.

With .508 horns in Bb/F, the King 3B/F is really the best option you could get IMHO. Even though most of them come in yellow brass, Silver Sonic bells, or silver plated, they are very common horns in this area.

I'm not saying that a .547 horn is out of the question, but just saying that they can be a workhouse if you're playing lead in jazz (at least I assume is what you plan on using the horn for) and could be a little cumbersome.

Just giving my $00.02!

BassBoneWadie99 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:15 pm With specs like this, the classic choices would be a Conn 88H, Bach 42BG, Yamaha YSL- 620, or a King 4B/F to name a few.

Also, since you brought up lead playing, using a large bore with an F-attachment can be a lot of work (especially in jazz.)

Maybe a .525 with F-attachment, like a Conn 79H for example? A Conn 79H is basically a Conn 88H with a 8 inch bell and a .525 slide bore. Even a Bach 36BG or a Yamaha YSL-640 (a .525 version of the 620) are good candidates. .525 horns are great for all round playing, especially is you mostly play first parts in wind ensemble and lead in jazz for example.

With .508 horns in Bb/F, the King 3B/F is really the best option you could get IMHO. Even though most of them come in yellow brass, Silver Sonic bells, or silver plated, they are very common horns in this area.

I'm not saying that a .547 horn is out of the question, but just saying that they can be a workhouse if you're playing lead in jazz (at least I assume is what you plan on using the horn for) and could be a little cumbersome.

Just giving my $00.02!

Thanks but it's not my question

Any general purpose small bore should help you cover all bases. Whether you go for 0.500" bore, 0.508" bore, or even a heavier 0.485" bore you should be OK. There are lots of good used horns out there.

If you had a small bore that you learned on, that could be the instrument. A good Yamaha 354 or King 606 would work. If your main horn is a large bore with F, don't spend a lot of money on a second unless you plan to use that mostly.

mickael57280 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:35 am Hi, what do you think are the best complement to a .547 f att rose brass bell.

Straight .508 Yellow? Rose brass?
Straight .500 Yellow ? Rose brass?
Other?

Could you be more specific about what types of playing you're hoping to do?

For example: as a general rule, just about any small bore horn is going to work better for commercial styles than a large bore for most players. There are tons of exceptions to several dimensions of that statement, but they're hardly worth pursuing in a lot of scenarios.

Really depends what you want to do...

But the horn I regret selling the most : Conn 6H. .500", 8" bell, silver plated.
I only ever used it for big band, and it was absolutely great for that. Worked for lead, also 2nd or even 3rd provided the bass trombonist wasn't playing on a monster. Figured I wouldn't be playing much jazz anymore when I started to move towards early music. But when I sold it, I had an orchestra rehearsal at the school where the buyer was studying, so instead of carrying two horns I just brought it, played the rehearsal with it exceptionally, and left empty handed. It hadn't occurred to me to try that 6H in orchestral setting, and I wish it had, because it turned out that rehearsal we had the best blend we ever got working on that program (Rachmaninoff Symphony no. 2) with the smaller horn on top. Wouldn't play everything on that, but if I started playing 1st in modern orchestras more again, I'd get definitely get one for all the rep that doesn't call for fat massive sound from the trombones but for a nice wide, warm texture with some brilliance.

I wouldn't worry about rose/yellow brass. Maybe higher copper content bells are truly darker in sound on average, I don't know. I haven't been convinced by my personal experience and there seems to be little scientific data. But in any case, there is so much variability between individual instruments due to a ton of factors. Guaranteed 100% that you can find a yellow brass belled instruments that sounds darker in your hands than a rose brass belled one of the same model. So just try horns and find one that sounds and plays the way you want, and don't worry too much about the color of the bell...

mickael57280 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:17 pm

BassBoneWadie99 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:15 pm With specs like this, the classic choices would be a Conn 88H, Bach 42BG, Yamaha YSL- 620, or a King 4B/F to name a few.

Also, since you brought up lead playing, using a large bore with an F-attachment can be a lot of work (especially in jazz.)

Maybe a .525 with F-attachment, like a Conn 79H for example? A Conn 79H is basically a Conn 88H with a 8 inch bell and a .525 slide bore. Even a Bach 36BG or a Yamaha YSL-640 (a .525 version of the 620) are good candidates. .525 horns are great for all round playing, especially is you mostly play first parts in wind ensemble and lead in jazz for example.

With .508 horns in Bb/F, the King 3B/F is really the best option you could get IMHO. Even though most of them come in yellow brass, Silver Sonic bells, or silver plated, they are very common horns in this area.

I'm not saying that a .547 horn is out of the question, but just saying that they can be a workhouse if you're playing lead in jazz (at least I assume is what you plan on using the horn for) and could be a little cumbersome.

Just giving my $00.02!

Thanks but it's not my question

Oh...

Well, at least I somewhat helped. I couldn't follow the question fully. Good thing that I'll will not major in English.

I presume when you say "complement" you mean that you want a smaller trombone that plays - or sounds - similar to your existing 0.547" bore F-attachment trombone (e.g., Conn 88H). Any smaller trombone will of course sound different than that. As noted before, the bell material is only one component of the sound spectrum produced by a trombone. The closest aural match to what you have may be a Conn 79H - sort of the 88H's little brother - but those are medium bore (0.522"), old and rather rare (they were last made in about 1971-72), and are rather expensive on the used market.

If you want a smaller bore with an F-attachment, you might consider the King 3BF (0.508" bore) or a Kanstul 760 (0.500"-0.530" dual bore) - though these do not have rose brass bells, if that is important to you.

If the F-attachment is not important (though you may miss it, since you're accustomed to it), then there are numerous fine options with 0.500" or 0.508" bores.

Your best bet is to find a store / dealer who has some different trombones that you can try out. And remember that the mouthpiece may affect your sound much more than the bell material!

King 3B/F is great, very versatile horn. Just in case, you didn't make a decision. But if, what horn did you buy?