Conn 508

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hyperbolica
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Conn 508

Post by hyperbolica »

Conn never made a straight 508 bore trombone. They made the 494-510 30h and the 500-522 32h. You could piece together a Conn ~508 by starting with a 30h and replacing the upper slide with the lower tubes from another donor, but we will never know what the Conn equivalent of a 16m or 3b would have been.

I've played the Shires Michael Davis +, and its about as good as it gets, but I'd be interested in playing a Rath R2, or a Lawler. I've never played an Edwards small bore.

Has anyone ever put a 508 slide on a Conn bell? I've got 48h, 38h, 10h and 100h bells, all of which might do nicely with a 508ish slide. I suspect the 10h would suit the larger size best, as the others seem to prefer smaller sides (like a 24h slide).
timbone
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Re: Conn 508

Post by timbone »

The Courtois .508 (if you haven't checked it out) will remind you of an older 6h in a .508 bore horn, and is availkable in yellow or red brass bell.
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hyperbolica
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Re: Conn 508

Post by hyperbolica »

That sounds pretty good. I'll make it a point to try one next time I see the Courtois booth. Thanks for the pointer.
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Matt K
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Re: Conn 508

Post by Matt K »

I actually have a Conn 32H on loan from a friend that it seems my Shires 508 will friction fit in no problem (the threads are different though). I'll give it a shot this weekend when I compare some of my other horns. Just picked up a 356 that I'm thinking I might replace my Shires with. Maybe. Used it on a gig last night and I really dig it... but I always have a tendency to like dual bores!
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dukesboneman
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Re: Conn 508

Post by dukesboneman »

The 32H is one of the un-sung heroes of the Conn Line. I have one now, I`ve had 2 in the past. (In Fact i`m looking to sell mine). The sound is really thick and lush, with lots of overtones. When pushed it will bark. I`ve never played a horn quite like it. Dark, Rich with a stellar upper range
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Re: Conn 508

Post by Matt K »

hyperbolica wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 7:55 pm Conn never made a straight 508 bore trombone. They made the 494-510 30h and the 500-522 32h. You could piece together a Conn ~508 by starting with a 30h and replacing the upper slide with the lower tubes from another donor, but we will never know what the Conn equivalent of a 16m or 3b would have been.

I've played the Shires Michael Davis +, and its about as good as it gets, but I'd be interested in playing a Rath R2, or a Lawler. I've never played an Edwards small bore.

Has anyone ever put a 508 slide on a Conn bell? I've got 48h, 38h, 10h and 100h bells, all of which might do nicely with a 508ish slide. I suspect the 10h would suit the larger size best, as the others seem to prefer smaller sides (like a 24h slide).
Right! So I forgot to post this, but I was able to try, back to back:

YSL356G (the 500/525 w/ F attachment)
Shires S1YM8/T08LW/2.5N leadpipe
Conn 32H
The 32H w/ the Shires T08LW slide
Shires S1YM8 w/ the Conn 32H Slide
YSL356G w/ 32H slide
Shires MD+ w/ whatever the stock pipe is (1.5 I think?)

General observations:

I really dig the MD+; very nice horn that if I could, I'd immediately place an order for one with an F attachment. Very well rounded. Projects, but isn't too bright. Dense, yet flexible sound. Beautiful. My current Shires (yes, the one for sale...) actually plays fairly similarly. It's a little brighter though and the sound isn't quite as dense. And I'm a bright player so I don't need any assistance in that regard!

The 32H is surprisingly nimble given it's specifications. If I were to try it blind, I don't think I'd peg it as a 500/522. I don't know what I would peg it as... but not what it is. Probably. At any rate, it has a very nice ease of playing but sounds relatively "large" given how nimble it is.

The 356G is a 500/525 dual bore as well, but with an 8" unsoldered, gold brass bell. Out of the bunch, it was the most broad sounding, which also isn't surprising given it's specifications. How much of that is me hearing with my eyes? Hard to tell. I probably should have done it blindfolded and ha someone hand me the horns but... I didn't :biggrin: Of course, with the breadth of sound it lacks a little bit of the projection and edge that the other horns mentioned have. That's actually a huge plus for me because my sound is perpetually brighter than the sun. Out of the group, I actually like it the best with the caveat that I think I would probably like the MD+ w/ F attachment if I could afford the bread and spend some time on it. But I plan on swapping the bell out for something with a soldered bell bead and probably the 32H pipe. More on that in a minute.

The 32H when paired with the Shires 508 slide was a very easy instrument to play. It lost a lot of the breadth of sound that you might want in a context where you're blending... but at the same time, it picked up quite a remarkable immediacy of sound. Flexibility was also quite easy as was the access to a large palette of colors... so long as your large palette was a large variety between "bright" and "really bright" :wink: The adapters didn't match but I could definitely see it being a reasonable substitute for, say, a 6H if you wanted something just a little bigger. That said, I did not have a chance to try it next to another similarly sized horn other than the Shires. I think it's possible you might get a very similar effect by getting a 6H and swapping out the lower slide for a 508 tube... maybe even a 3B tube.

Interestingly, the 32H slide with the 356G was my favorite combination out of the bunch. It gave it just a little extra flexibility but didn't take away much from the breadth of sound mentioned above. I think I can attribute a lot of that to the leadpipe because the length and width of the slides as well as the internal dimensions was otherwise very similar between the 32H and the 356G. That's why I decided to put that Shires up for sale... I think if I can swap the leadpipe out for a 32H pipe, it'll put it over the top for me. I actually put in an order with brassark pending the sale of something I'm doing there. I'm not sure if I'm going to go with one of their yellow brass or nickel replicas. I'm really on the fence about it because I like the way the yellow one plays but it still isn't quite as articulate as say, a smaller instrument. I'm wondering how far I can push it with a material change in the leadpipe. Similarly, I'd really like to make it a screwbell, so I'm trying to sell the Shires to hopefully be able to get something that has a soldered bell bead and is a little on the lighter side. My thought is that that combination of parts might cancel out, but worst case scenario I'd still have the original! Hard to find something that ticks all those boxes though! Fortunatley, I like the way that horn plays as it is so I can be patient.

So tl;dr -> I think a 508 Conn might be a worthwhile endeavor inasmuch as you want something perhaps inbetween the 6H and the 32H. BUT I think you might be able to get something similar by making a 6H+ rather than a 32H-, if that makes sense. Or perhaps making a fraken-instrument out of Yamaha/King parts for a slide and a Conn bell/bell section.

Actually, on that note, I did something similar a few years ago. Had a 4H bell that I put a YSL354 slide on. The receiver + labor only ended up costing like $100 or something. And it played really quite well. I sold it to a forum member a few years ago and, as far as I'm aware, they liked it at the time at least. Was very bright for the specs. You put a 354 bell on the same slide an it was a lot more 'broad' sounding. It worked REALLY well for some of the commercial stuff I was doing at the time though.
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Neo Bri
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Re: Conn 508

Post by Neo Bri »

timbone wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 8:03 am The Courtois .508 (if you haven't checked it out) will remind you of an older 6h in a .508 bore horn, and is availkable in yellow or red brass bell.
These are very, very good.
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bellend
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Re: Conn 508

Post by bellend »

It always seems a shame that Conn never made a horn that size.

I've played several 32h's and while they were all great horns in there own way, I wouldn't describe the feel and blow of them as that of a .508 bore horn, they're kind of out on their own slightly.

My own personal candidate for a Conn type of feel at this size would be the Selmer Bolero.
I think a lot of people see the curved bell stay and think "Oh Yeah 3B clone" but there very different animal from a King and I think much closer to the feel of a Conn.
These are a fairly under the radar so don't attract big money but a definitely worth checking out. The guy who designed this with Selmer , Gabriel Masson was a fantastic player with great high chops and the slots on the upper harmonics are great.
DJ usually has a few knocking about at good prices

FWIW

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hyperbolica
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Re: Conn 508

Post by hyperbolica »

Bellend,
I had a Bolero w/F, but it was almost identical in sound to my 79h, so I sold it. It was a nice horn, very playable, and with the F attachment very versatile as well, but a near duplicate of something I already had.

I wish I had the opportunity to try a Courtois, as mentioned, but it just wasn't practical for me at this time.

I wound up getting a Yamaha 891z. The first time I played it, it sounded bland up against my 10h, 48h. But I went back and played it again, and it was just right. I think a bigger mouthpiece (Elliott E cup) gave it a better sound. The slide is fantastic, and it has a very precise feel.


Dukesbonesman,

15 years ago I had a 32h, but I sold it because it was the only horn I had that had never been out of the house. It just never felt like the right horn for a gig. It was fun to play on etudes and solos, but never seemed to go well with a section of other bones. Maybe I let what Sam Burtis said about it get into my head - "its neither fish nor fowl", I suppose meaning that it isn't really a small bore instrument or a medium bore, it's just kind of its own thing. Nice horn, I just didn't have any use for it.
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Re: Conn 508

Post by imsevimse »

Hi!

I think the closest to a .508 Conn trombone I can think of is the setup I have on my Xeno Yamaha 891Z. It is a .508 horn with a special ordered seamed Conn 32h copper pipe from Noa Gladstone at BrassArk. This is a better match for me than the original leadpipes that came with the horn. I have used that on lead with a big band who play heavy electrified pop/rock music. It works better than the original Andy Martin and Wycliffe Gordon pipes (for me)

I have a Conn 32h too. I know how good they are, but not the best lead horn (for me)

/Tom
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