Rotary bass trumpets...

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JasonDonnelly
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Rotary bass trumpets...

Post by JasonDonnelly »

I am quite interested in purchasing a bass trumpet. More specifically, a European-style rotary, probably in Bb.

Being a college student without an orchestral position, I'll need to be somewhat economical with this purchase. Alexander and Thein make some glorious bass trumpets, but there's no way I can shell out that much cash. More reasonable seem to be the models made by Melton/Meinl Weston and Kuhnl and Hoyer, which all retail around the 3-4k mark.

This horn will, for the most part, be used for solo music (yes, you heard that right) and chamber music (looking to experiment with different voices in a brass quintet and other settings). That's why I lean towards the Bb key. Melton's Bb model has a HUGE bore (.552) and a pretty big bell (8.2 in.) Kuhnl and Hoyer's has a slightly larger bell (8.6 in.), but a more reasonable bore (.512). This has me leaning towards the latter option, as I think it could potentially have more versatility, especially if experiment with mouthpieces. While it's not the main reason I'm buying, I'd like to be able to play Janacek Sinfonietta, Rite of Spring, and heck, even The Ring on this horn if I get the opportunity.

Does anyone have anyone have experience with these horns, or ones similar to it?
University of Miami - BM Euphonium Performance 21'
Indiana University - MM Bass Trombone and Euphonium 24'

Courtois 551BHRA
Besson Prestige 2052S
Conn 88HSCL
Kuhnl and Hoyer Slokar Alto (Eb/Bb)

Various Greg Black mouthpieces
sf105
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Re: Rotary bass trumpets...

Post by sf105 »

You might want to take a look at Wessex, who have both piston and rotary versions. Although, I think to be truly European it probably ought to be in C. If you don't mind pistons, I use a Holton which isn't bad and is definitely a trumpet rather than a rewrapped trombone, could probably use a 3rd valve slide trigger, though. And, sadly, the Rite really should be an F/Eb alto so the 4th trumpet can double.
JasonDonnelly
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Re: Rotary bass trumpets...

Post by JasonDonnelly »

If Wessex were to design their own model of bass trumpet, I'd probably jump on it in a heartbeat. However, currently both models (piston and rotary) are just the standard Jinbao makes, which I'm not particularly interested in.

As far as Rite of Spring is concerned, plenty of orchestras play it with C or Bb bass trumpet. Most F/Eb "alto" trumpets have only three valves, and thus the part is not playable (descends to a written low F multiple times). If they have an F/Eb "bass" trumpet with four valves, then they're good to go.
University of Miami - BM Euphonium Performance 21'
Indiana University - MM Bass Trombone and Euphonium 24'

Courtois 551BHRA
Besson Prestige 2052S
Conn 88HSCL
Kuhnl and Hoyer Slokar Alto (Eb/Bb)

Various Greg Black mouthpieces
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JohnL
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Re: Rotary bass trumpets...

Post by JohnL »

Sounds like you've got the budget to go higher, but you still might want to check out the Lidl if you have a chance.
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Finetales
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Re: Rotary bass trumpets...

Post by Finetales »

I own a vintage Lidl rotary in Bb. I can tell you from firsthand experience that unless you're doing a lot of low register (like bottom of the bass clef) playing you're better off with a Lidl over the much more expensive Meinl Weston C. Yes the Meinl is in the correct key (it also has Bb slides) and has 4 valves, but it (at least the one I've played and performed on extensively) is just straight up not good. When I got my Lidl I was shocked at how much easier the intonation and slotting was, and how much less thin it sounded. My Lidl plays great...obviously not as good as a Thein (which is the best instrument I've ever played and it's not even close) but a lot better than the MW, except for in the aforementioned low register where it is pretty stuffy. I'm considering getting it cut to C at some point.
bbocaner
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Re: Rotary bass trumpets...

Post by bbocaner »

The Lidl's got the right sound. The ones with bigger bells and larger bores are really intended for beer-hall traditional German music. One of the Chinese companies is making a 4-valve instrument that's stenciled by Schiller and others that is apparently decent, but I haven't tried one yet. One of the euphonium players in the Marine Band in DC told me he digs his. I like the Laetsch, the Thein, and to a slightly lesser extent, the Alexander -- but they are expensive.
JasonDonnelly
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Re: Rotary bass trumpets...

Post by JasonDonnelly »

bbocaner wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:21 am The Lidl's got the right sound. The ones with bigger bells and larger bores are really intended for beer-hall traditional German music. One of the Chinese companies is making a 4-valve instrument that's stenciled by Schiller and others that is apparently decent, but I haven't tried one yet. One of the euphonium players in the Marine Band in DC told me he digs his. I like the Laetsch, the Thein, and to a slightly lesser extent, the Alexander -- but they are expensive.
I'll definitely look into the Lidl. I wonder...how useful would the "beer-hall" style horns be outside of their intended use? Could it fill a tenor/baritone voice in a small brass group? If the answer is yes, then I might be leaning more towards that.
University of Miami - BM Euphonium Performance 21'
Indiana University - MM Bass Trombone and Euphonium 24'

Courtois 551BHRA
Besson Prestige 2052S
Conn 88HSCL
Kuhnl and Hoyer Slokar Alto (Eb/Bb)

Various Greg Black mouthpieces
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MoominDave
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Re: Rotary bass trumpets...

Post by MoominDave »

Note that of the repertoire you mention, the larger-sounding instruments don't tend to pass muster sound-wise for the Wagner, though they'll be fine for the lower, less demanding, and less exposed parts in the Stravinsky and the Janacek - or indeed in a brass group, or as a soloist. The Lidl does surprisingly well tonally in the 'real bass trumpet' context of the Ring - as Barry says above, it has the right sound.
Dave Taylor
(not to be confused with other Dave Taylors...)
bbocaner
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Re: Rotary bass trumpets...

Post by bbocaner »

JasonDonnelly wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:06 pm I wonder...how useful would the "beer-hall" style horns be outside of their intended use? Could it fill a tenor/baritone voice in a small brass group? If the answer is yes, then I might be leaning more towards that.
Mnozil Brass is one instance in which they make this type of instrument work very well. And with the right mouthpiece you can get pretty close (but not quite) to a more symphonic sound.
whitbey
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Re: Rotary bass trumpets...

Post by whitbey »

The horn in Mnozil Brass.......
Yeah, I could enjoy playing that.
Edwards Sterling bell 525/547
Edwards brass bell 547/562
Edwards Jazz w/ Ab valve 500"/.508"
Markus Leuchter Alto Trombone
Bass Bach 50 Bb/F/C dependent.
Cerveny oval euphonium
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Finetales
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Re: Rotary bass trumpets...

Post by Finetales »

If Leonhard is on the same equipment he was on in "Magic Moments", the instrument he uses is a bass flugelhorn, not a bass trumpet. Though he used to use a traditional rotary bass trumpet back in the day.

Still, the Schagerl Wunderhorn bass trumpets on their website are absolutely drool-worthy, but with a price to match.
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