TromboneChat

HI
I currently play a Bach 42b and I'm considering switching to horns due to the valve. The problem is that I can't really afford to spend more than my current trombone is worth which us around 2000 dollars since I also want to buy a bass trombone. I heard the shires q series is good and it's around my budget but I want to make sure that it wouldn't be a downgrade from the bach considering it's cheaper and assembled in china. So what's your advice. Should I sell the bach and get the shires or just hold on to the bach until I can afford something better.

Have you already had a tech check out the Bach valve? If not, I'd suggest that first. Otherwise, I'd say if you are also in the market for a bass I'd hold onto it anyway for saving purposes. Just my .02

My tech put an Olsen rotary valve (Instrument Innovations) on my 42B, and now it's one of my favorite horns.

pedrombon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:40 am My tech put an Olsen rotary valve (Instrument Innovations) on my 42B, and now it's one of my favorite horns.

yes, but as I mentioned I don't have an unlimited budget and buying new valves and putting them on my trombone would be costly and If I get a new trombone I sell or trade in my current one.

I haven't tried a Q in awhile but all the ones I've played were great. That said, it won't cost anywhere near $2k to have the rotor swapped. I would suspect if you get Q you'd end up spending quite a bit more if you sell the Bach 2nd hand unless you're quite patient.

Fully assembled rotor sections come up relatively frequently. It is not tremendously difficult to install them and then you're out possibly only the labor of ~10 solder points.

How much do you think it would cost?

8parktoollover wrote: ↑Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:03 am How much do you think it would cost?

Varies depending on the tech. Instrument Innovations valves are a little tricky to deal with but by no means impossible. There were some issues with linkages when I had mine made (almost done but I had some very unusual specifications for mine). It isn't a "drop-in" replacement. Best to find a tech or shop around and see if they've done them before. Long Island Brass did most of the work on my bass. I wanted to have a local shop do the linkages on that one because II didn't have linkages available at the time (they still might not?) because I have dainty hands. Eric Edwards has also done some great work for me in the past.

If you were to find a used rotor, could be very cheap. In 2011 I found a Shires rotor for $500. I had it mounted to a Bach 42 for I want to say another $500. That was honestly, extreme luck. But that said, you can definitely come in south of $2000. It isn't unusual to have complete rotor sections come for sale for $850-1200 now.

What's wrong with the valve?

Maybe he has just read too many post where people complain about 42 valves?

I’m assuming you like your Bach but are just unhappy with valve (as opposed to just wanting a different horn, which is perfectly fine as well). Instrument Innovations sells another rotor for $125. It was made for Blessing but I assume the order fell through. According to their website it would be an easy replacement as they’re the same size as the stock valve. I would think labor fees would be less as well. In any case it will surely be a more free blowing valve than the stock valve.

Rrova wrote: ↑Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:13 pm I’m assuming you like your Bach but are just unhappy with valve (as opposed to just wanting a different horn, which is perfectly fine as well). Instrument Innovations sells another rotor for $125. It was made for Blessing but I assume the order fell through. According to their website it would be an easy replacement as they’re the same size as the stock valve. I would think labor fees would be less as well. In any case it will surely be a more free blowing valve than the stock valve.

Oh I'm surprised they still have those. I nearly ordered those a few years ago before opting for their valve. They had a limited number of them. Maybe they made more. If those are what I think they are, those would be more-or-less a drop-in replacement and likely only require a few solder points and maybe some finagling of the levers

Whole conversion to an Olsen rotor should run AROUND $700.

paulyg wrote: ↑Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:22 pm Whole conversion to an Olsen rotor should run AROUND $700.

Paul, does that figure include the valve? And it would be basically just using the existing traditional wrap?

To answer your original question, yes, I believe the Q is worth it. An extremely well playing horn right out of the box, and the modularity of it allows you to slowly customize it to your liking. I bought a standard rotor Q with a gold brass bell, and currently the only original parts are the rotor section and the slide, which are almost indistinguishable from Shires custom parts anyways. I do plan to upgrade to a T47 slide, as I prefer a conn width to a wide slide, but that’s another tangent. Even if you chose to keep it “stock” I think it could be a nice upgrade from the Bach.

Unless something is mechanically wrong with your valve, I would stay put with the 42. It's not a sexy valve but it does what it needs to do. If you have any inkling of getting another horn in the next few years then save your money until then.

Rrova wrote: ↑Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:08 pm

paulyg wrote: ↑Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:22 pm Whole conversion to an Olsen rotor should run AROUND $700.

Paul, does that figure include the valve? And it would be basically just using the existing traditional wrap?

Yes, should include the valve, and believe me, using the existing traditional wrap is a great idea. They play AMAZING with the Olsen rotors, and you don't need to worry about hitting anything behind you!

Thoughts as I have followed this post since the beginning.

I have found the Q series horns to be great players. I especially like the yellow brass bell version. I am not a Bach 42 lover but the Q series is what I like about the Bach sound but a much more forgiving and predictable response. I'd choose it over any 42B I have had tried.

Second - If you have a 42 that you like, a valve conversion makes more sense to me. I swapped the valve on my 79H and love the results. The Olson valve conversion makes sense to me if you like the horn.

I play a Shires Q30, yellow bell with an axial valve. I like it a lot, but I'm not sure if I can say buying a Q would be a better use of your money than converting the valve on your 42. A studio mate of mine actually plays a (cosmetically) rough 42B. He came in last August with the horn completely stock. He asked me to give his horn a blow, asking about the resistance on the valve. There was some resistance there, for sure, but granted, I'm used to very little resistance on my axial horn. Later in January, between the fall and spring semesters. he had his valve converted by a local tech here in Memphis. Said it costed him about $450. I gave his horn a blow after that, and the difference was night and day. The horn blew much more free. I almost preferred the feel of it over my Q. Just my 2 cents!

Trav1s wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:03 am
I have found the Q series horns to be great players. I especially like the yellow brass bell version. I am not a Bach 42 lover but the Q series is what I like about the Bach sound but a much more forgiving and predictable response. I'd choose it over any 42B I have had tried.

I'm curious: have you played an Anniversary 42B? I'm also not a fan of the 42. I'd never played a 42 I preferred to my 36, until I tried the Anniversary 42B0 the Selmer rep brought to NABBA last year. I came very close to buying that one, but my wife would have put me in the doghouse.

I've since acquired a Shires from brassark (thanks, Noah!) that I like better than any 42 including the Anniversary.

Pssst... if you want to have the Instrument Innovations rotor put on, check out Eric Edwards, AKA bonearzt on this forum. He did a horn that I owned for a while... it came out amazing.