MK drawing leadpipes

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norbie2018
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MK drawing leadpipes

Post by norbie2018 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:08 pm

I play an Edwards .547 and wish to experiment with other leadpipe materials. After some experimentation with the brass leadpipes included with the instrument (T1, T2, T3), I feel most comfortable on and get a sound closest to my image of a great sound playing the T2.

Which MK leadpipe - the Bach or GR - is equivalent to the T2?

I welcome all opinions, but am especially keen to hear those of people who have actually played on the leadpipes in question.

Thanks!
norbie2018
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by norbie2018 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:14 pm

And now I notice on the MK website MK42 & MK42-O leadpipes, but no description details. I'll call them and ask, but does anyone have direct experience with these?
whitbey
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by whitbey » Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:36 pm

I have an MK pipe. It is just fine.

I find very little difference from anyone that makes decent leadpipes.

Except......
Does someone have one in stock.

I bought a pipe several months ago. And several makers of pipes never called me back to sell me a pipe.
Edwards Sterling bell 525/547
Edwards brass bell 547/562
Edwards Jazz w/ Ab valve 500"/.508"
Conn 34H Alto
Bass Bach 50 Bb/F/C dependent.
Cerveny oval euphonium
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Matt K
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by Matt K » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:58 pm

Probably have an easier time using a dealership like Dillon, Brassark, Sheridan, Hickeys, etc.
Bach5G
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by Bach5G » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:16 pm

There were several thread on MK leadpipes in the past. People were generally pretty happy with them. Might be worth a search.
norbie2018
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by norbie2018 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:50 pm

Bach5G wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:16 pm
There were several thread on MK leadpipes in the past. People were generally pretty happy with them. Might be worth a search.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I searched them before posting this and could not find a comparison between the 2 leadpipe and their MV42 and GR pipes. I get the impression that the MV42 is similar to a 1, while the GR is closer to a 3, but I wanted to know if anyone could confirm that. They now have a MV42-O which may be a 2 equivalent, but I'm not certain.

I emailed MK after I posted my original post and asked them if the MV42-O was similar to an Edwards 2. The email I received from M/K said they don't compare their pipes to other makers, but I'm welcome to trial their pipes, which I found odd. They make copies of a Bach and (probably) Olds leadpipe and they don't want to compare to other makers?

If anyone has any info on the original question I'd appreciate it.
Kbiggs
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by Kbiggs » Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:14 am

Leadpipes, like mouthpieces, are all different. While it’s tempting to make comparisons like you sometimes see in mouthpiece comparison charts, it’s basically pointless. EVERYONE’s leadpipes are different, they feel different, and they are made with different designs and philosophies—overall length, venturi size, venturi placement, venturi placement, etc. In other words, ya gotta try ‘em.

I have tried and used some of the M/K pipes, specifically the MV50, GR, and the MV42, in yellow and gold brass. In general, the MV series tends to work better with one piece bells, and the GR series works better with two piece bells. (I believe the fellows who make M&W Trombones also agree with this observation.) However, it really depends on what sound and response you want.

My two cents: the MV pipes sound broader, and tend to emphasize the lower harmonics—they sound “darker.” The GR pipes tend to sound more focused, and tend to emphasize middle (and possibly upper) harmonics. GR’s tend to respond a littler quicker with less delay or “bubble” on the front of the note, while MV’s tend to encourage the player to use a lot of air at the front and throughout the note.

My experience with M/K is that they’ve always been very responsive to calls and emails.
I have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened.
—Mark Twain (attributed)
norbie2018
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by norbie2018 » Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:32 pm

Thanks for the input.

One correction: your earlier post (2018?) re these leadpipes stated the above then corrected it by stating the GR pipes are best for unsoldered rims while the MK was better for soldered rims. This was then confirmed by one of the owners of MW Trombones.
Kbiggs
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by Kbiggs » Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:08 pm

Sorry, my confusion. You’re right. It’s soldered vs. unsoldered. I was getting them confused with two piece bells (Conn, Holton) or one piece bells (Bach).
I have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened.
—Mark Twain (attributed)
norbie2018
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by norbie2018 » Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:14 pm

No worries. MK drawing got back to me suggesting the MV42 is the tightest, the MV42-O more open, and the GR most open. I ordered a couple of the MV42-O to trial, one in nickel the other bronze, although I may change the bronze one to yellow brass. It is SO difficult to tell from the descriptions what might be a good fit, I just have to pony up the coin and try.
GBP
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by GBP » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:03 pm

norbie2018 wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:14 pm
No worries. MK drawing got back to me suggesting the MV42 is the tightest, the MV42-O more open, and the GR most open. I ordered a couple of the MV42-O to trial, one in nickel the other bronze, although I may change the bronze one to yellow brass. It is SO difficult to tell from the descriptions what might be a good fit, I just have to pony up the coin and try.
Yes, I agree. You never know how equipment is going to react until play on it. I have been taking this approach with mouthpieces. If it seems interesting, buy it and find out for sure.
harrisonreed
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by harrisonreed » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:29 pm

What's wrong with the T2?
norbie2018
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by norbie2018 » Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:47 pm

harrisonreed wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:29 pm
What's wrong with the T2?
Nothing. As I stated in my OP I want to experiment with leadpipe materials.
harrisonreed
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by harrisonreed » Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:58 pm

I had tried replacing my old t350's 2 pipe with other pipes that fit, but the 2 is hard to beat! Good luck!
Kbiggs
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by Kbiggs » Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:20 pm

2 more cents... and a $1.98 will get you a cup of coffee...

If you tend to play with a hard front to the note, and you have more brilliant sound, and you want to tame the front and “darken” the sound, then a gold/bronze leadpipe MIGHT help. Otherwise, I’d go for yellow.

Just remember that everyone responds a little differently to different leadpipe materials, just like different mouthpieces. Maybe a gold pipe is just right for you...
I have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened.
—Mark Twain (attributed)
norbie2018
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by norbie2018 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:10 pm

Just an update: Mike Bulow of MK Drawing contacted me. I sent a request to trial the MV42-O in nickel and bronze describing what I was looking for. He sent a very detailed email to narrow down my selection. Put simply, I described what I like in a sound (dense core, lots of overtones) he suggested either yellow brass, rose brass, or sterling; I'm going to trial all three. As has been pointed out, the Edwards T2 is an excellent pipe and the MV42-O is similar; I'm excited to try it in different flavors.

BTW if you listen to Collin Williams and Pete Steiner, these are the trombone sounds I have in my head. Tenor trombone not slide euphonium.
StickMan
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by StickMan » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:51 am

So, you've had the pipes about a month now norbie2018, how'd you go? Settled on anything?
norbie2018
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by norbie2018 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:52 am

T2. In the end, it has a depth of sound that the other leadpipes lacked, at least for me on my horn.
Bonearzt
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by Bonearzt » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:14 am

The only real way to test and find a new lead pipe is to get several and play test them in actual playing situations without knowing which pipe is which.

This method lets your lips and ears tell you which one works rather than your eyes!


Eric
Eric Edwards
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"If you must choose between two evils, choose the one you haven't tried yet."
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norbie2018
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Re: MK drawing leadpipes

Post by norbie2018 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:04 am

The route I took was to record myself playing. I heard for myself the differences in tone color of the different metals. I experienced their response. The upper partials slotted much more easily on the MK pipes but they all lacked the combination of core, upper, middle, and lower overtones that the T2 has. For me, on my instrument. I do not have the ability to set up a recorder in a large concert hall and record there, so I went with my home recording.

Now I'm experimenting with mouthpieces and perhaps will go to the Edwards factory to try other leadpipes from them, seeking that tighter slotting of the upper register that the MK pipes offered. Our I may just stick with the T2. It is great to have options!

MK was wonderful to work with so if you're interested in what they offer I say try them out.
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