Jazz Trombones

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chettbone213
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Jazz Trombones

Post by chettbone213 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:05 pm

I'm starting to play more and more lead trombone in jazz and I'm wondering peoples opinions on a good small bore jazz trombone for around 2-350 bucks. I'm not looking to spend a ton and I had a buddy who played an old Holton he got for about 250 and I'd be looking for something like that.
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BGuttman
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by BGuttman » Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:06 pm

You can play acceptably well on a Yamaha 354.

That said, I play a Holton Stratodyne (67) and it works great. Also a Martin Committee and a Martin Imperial. I know one guy who played a Reynolds Argenta.

And the old standbys: King 2B, 2B+, 3B; Conn 4H, 6H, 24H, 48H, 100H; Bach 8, 12, 16; Yamaha 651, 653, 691, 697; Holton 65, 67, 69; Benge 170.

You may be able to find any of these in your price range if you don't get too fussy about looks. For a few bucks more you can get one in good condition.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
imsevimse
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by imsevimse » Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:27 am

Add to Bruce list a Martin TR4501, Bach 6, Conn 30H and a Conn 44H and you have a list of all the best vintage lead horns.

/Tom
"Do your best and then do better" ttf_watermailonman
My webbpage: https://sites.google.com/site/brazzmusic
bigbandbone
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by bigbandbone » Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:53 am

I was on a budget too. I picked up a 1954 Conn Conquest very cheap. People think they are a student horn, but they really are not. They are a slightly redesigned 4H. Conn wanted to make a more affordable pro horn. Different bracing, male/male tuning slide, and less elaborate engraving. Dynamite lead/jazz axe!
chettbone213
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by chettbone213 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:47 am

What is the consensus on Reynolds horns such as the medalists and emperor horns? I've seen a lot of those that are in not half bad shape for the price. Same with a lot of the Holton Colligate horns
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BGuttman
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by BGuttman » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:11 am

Holton Collegiate can be OK. Some of the older ones don't have a bell nut to lock slide and bell sections together. This can be a disadvantage when playing in a Jazz Band where there are a lot of mute changes.

The Medalist and Emperor models are also decent student line horns. In the same vein is the Besson 2-20 (8-10 is the pro model).

Quite frankly, nearly anything will work; it's you much more than the instrument.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
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Trav1s
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by Trav1s » Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:45 pm

Connquest 77h is an intermediate horn based on the 6h so it is a .500” bore. The bell is a heavier gauge and all brass. I am impressed with mine.
I call it counting by Conn: 24H, 32H, 50H, 77H, 79H, 80H
Doubler
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by Doubler » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:54 pm

BGuttman wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:11 am
Quite frankly, nearly anything will work; it's you much more than the instrument.
:good:
Current instruments:
Olds Studio trombone, 3 trumpets, 1 flugelhorn, 1 cornet, 1 shofar, 1 keyboard

Previous trombones:
Selmer Bundy, Marceau
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BillO
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by BillO » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:59 pm

You could get a nice Yamaha YSL-354 in your price range. Nice horn - look for one with a nickel-silver slide.
CoralPolyps
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by CoralPolyps » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:24 pm

Don't sleep on an olds, easily get one for ~$150
King 3b SilverSonic ('69)
King 2b Liberty ('49)
Yamaha YSL-354
Yamaha YBL-421G
ParLawGod
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by ParLawGod » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:59 pm

I agree with the Yamaha 354. Listed as a "beginner" instrument, but they PLAY. Might also be able to find a couple of Olds horns in that price range (Special...maybe a Studio...Super would be well above that price range more than likely).
Mhoutris
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by Mhoutris » Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:25 pm

Holton 65! Super cheap and everyone who's played mine loves it.
JohnD
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by JohnD » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:11 pm

Another one for Yamaha 354E. Incredible. It wants a mpc like Yamaha 48, Bach 6.5,high range is fine. If you buy new, try several horns. Easy to find a really good one. Check out high E on 2nd, Eb on 3rd, D on 1st and 4th and Bb on 3rd, if you can reach out. If not, ask someone to try the horn for you. Once these notes do speak clearly, you may assume the horn being ok.
Hear, Ear !
WillydeWoofer
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by WillydeWoofer » Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:28 am

Maybe you can find an old Yamaha 352 for little money.
Doug Elliott
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by Doug Elliott » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:46 am

Yes, YSL-352 was the predecessor of the 354 and is exactly the same horn as far as I can tell.
slideslave
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by slideslave » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:48 am

I believe Doug Elliott won his audition for the jazz chair of the Airmen of Note playing a Yamaha YSL 354. So, while it is marketed as a student horn, it has worked for one of our best jazz players in one of the best jazz bands.
chettbone213
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by chettbone213 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:03 pm

I've kept my eyes out and managed to snag a Holton 65 off of eBay for under $100. I need to get it cleaned and get the slide straightened as well as some dents taken out but it pairs nicely with a King 11m mounthpiece and I'm loving it!
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BillO
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by BillO » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:18 pm

chettbone213 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:03 pm
I've kept my eyes out and managed to snag a Holton 65 off of eBay for under $100. I need to get it cleaned and get the slide straightened as well as some dents taken out but it pairs nicely with a King 11m mounthpiece and I'm loving it!
Yikes! I hope you got a chance to put your eyes back in before they dried out!
chettbone213
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by chettbone213 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:06 pm

BillO wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:18 pm
chettbone213 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:03 pm
I've kept my eyes out and managed to snag a Holton 65 off of eBay for under $100. I need to get it cleaned and get the slide straightened as well as some dents taken out but it pairs nicely with a King 11m mounthpiece and I'm loving it!
Yikes! I hope you got a chance to put your eyes back in before they dried out!
Theyre a bit dry but I'll live!
tntitan
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by tntitan » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:23 pm

An older style King Tempo (nickel silver bell) is the same size as a 2B and plays similarly. They can be found easily in your price range.
Vegasbound
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by Vegasbound » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:21 pm

Contact DJ Kennedy he will have what you need in your price range
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TimBrown
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by TimBrown » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:37 am

Curtis playing what - for him - was a "jazz" horn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUDqJcq ... hGYdjqOoJw

But then again, this was a smallish combo and he didn't have to scream un-mic'd over a large band with everyone else blasting!
Redthunder
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by Redthunder » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:52 am

TimBrown wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:37 am
Curtis playing what - for him - was a "jazz" horn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUDqJcq ... hGYdjqOoJw

But then again, this was a smallish combo and he didn't have to scream un-mic'd over a large band with everyone else blasting!
Curtis Fuller also used a small mouthpiece - a King 28 I believe, even with the huge Opera - which helped him sound more like he was playing a small horn than a big one. I own an Opera and while it’s an amazing horn to play, it can be a real challenge to play in a section or other settings where blend (not to mention intonation) is important.

He also switched to a smaller bore Yamaha in the 70s and 80s, and some other horn I’m not familiar with that you can see with him in videos.
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TimBrown
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by TimBrown » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:20 am

Redthunder wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:52 am

Curtis Fuller also used a small mouthpiece - a King 28 I believe, even with the huge Opera - which helped him sound more like he was playing a small horn than a big one. I own an Opera and while it’s an amazing horn to play, it can be a real challenge to play in a section or other settings where blend (not to mention intonation) is important.

He also switched to a smaller bore Yamaha in the 70s and 80s, and some other horn I’m not familiar with that you can see with him in videos.
Good info! It's always difficult for me to guess the size of a mpc from a visual, but it isn't hard for me to accept that he played on a small one. That's pretty much what they did back then and he obviously made it work splendidly!

Anyway, I think he epitomized the concept that a "jazz" trombone is whatever size you are playing at the moment when you are playing jazz! And he clearly was able to demonstrate nimbleness that others might say is lacking in a larger horn. But in that regard, I think he "cheated" (tongue in cheek). For fear of digressing too much, I noticed he sometimes rapidly played a LOT more notes between 1st & 3rd position than are actually on the horn. I'm guessing he was able to "Bob McChesney" a lot of articulations between those two positions.

He and Slide Hampton, as well as James Morrison show without much doubt that a large horn - in the right hands (and THAT may be the key) - is also suitable for jazz.
Vegasbound
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by Vegasbound » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:19 am

Bill Pearce also played a 12c in an olds opera
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ExZacLee
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by ExZacLee » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:11 pm

I play a lot more lead now than I used to, I still prefer the solo book but the opportunities to play lead have made me think more about my equipment, and particularly what I need to make the job as easy as possible.

For student horns on big band lead, I don't know that anything really surpasses the Yamaha 354 or the King 606. There are plenty of great student model horns out there that will do the job, but these two models are definitely my favorite in that regard. The 354 feels a lot like a Conn 6H and the King 606 feels a lot like a 2B+. Both can be found in your price range if you look hard enough.
imsevimse
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by imsevimse » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:51 pm

For $350 you can not get many pro models on this side of the pond.

Here you could probably get a student yamaha 354 for less because they are common as student horns. There are many used because kids quit playing and sell their horns but if you can get any of the pro King models or pro Conn models on Bruce list for under $350 then you should choose any of those instead. That's what I would do if they were that cheap over here.

/Tom
"Do your best and then do better" ttf_watermailonman
My webbpage: https://sites.google.com/site/brazzmusic
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Bloo
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Re: Jazz Trombones

Post by Bloo » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:32 pm

"Jazz horn"

Any horn can be a jazz horn. It's about what comes out, not what it's coming out of.

I'm just screwing with ya. Get an old style King Tempo, nickel silver bell. Basically a king 2B. The horn is about as small as they come and it's loud as hell.
I'm partial to vintage Conn horns, and new Getzens.
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