Bach 42BO for a school band?

Post Reply
User avatar
sirisobhakya
Posts: 296
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:04 pm
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Contact:

Bach 42BO for a school band?

Post by sirisobhakya »

This may be a trivial question, but how suitable do you think Bach 42BO would be for a school band, where accident is prone and also the space is quite tight?

And I know this issue has been discussed many times, but how much different there is between the sound of 42B and 42BO?

Some background: my former school’s headmaster (who is quite against the school band) is retiring, and the new one seems kinder and more supportive. My former school’s band director/teacher, seeing this as an opportunity, is planning to procure new trombones for students, along with a large lot of other instruments. His plan includes 6 (!) brand-new Bach 42BO. Now, I am an ardent Yamaha fan, but I don’t have any objection against a good Bach 42B. What I have is against the 42BO. The F side protrudes too far behind player’s head, and I have even seen a semi-pro player knocked it against objects behind her inadvertently more than one time. I informed the director about this, but he insisted he likes the “openness” of the 42BO than the 42B.

Maybe I am too paranoid about the potential of damage, or not. What do you think?
Chaichan Wiriyaswat
Bangkok, Thailand
“Why did I buy so many horns when I only have one mouth…?”
User avatar
Burgerbob
Posts: 4526
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:10 pm
Location: LA
Contact:

Re: Bach 42BO for a school band?

Post by Burgerbob »

All things considered, the 42B will be fine.

But the 42BO will be OK too. It's only a few inches farther out.

I worry more about the slide in front of the player than the back with younger kids.
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
User avatar
greenbean
Posts: 1784
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:14 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Bach 42BO for a school band?

Post by greenbean »

Well, at least 3 of the 6 will be good players!

And at about $3000 each? Wow.
Tom in San Francisco
Currently playing...
Bach Corp 16M
Many French horns
Dennis
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:23 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

Re: Bach 42BO for a school band?

Post by Dennis »

I'm not a fan of Bach's BO open wraps, and that is true regardless of 36, 42, or 50 species. As you note, the wrap extends too far back. In close spaces like orchestra pits or small studios, it's much too easy to bash the F-attachment tuning slide against whatever is behind the player. (That it is frequently an orchestra pit concrete/cinder block wall doesn't help matters.) They were more careful about designing (adopting?) the wraps for the A (Hagemann) and T (or AF, Thayer/Axial Flow) valves. They don't suffer from the problem.

The real problem with the 42B feeling 'stuffy' isn't the wrap. It's the valve itself. The 42 is for all intents and purposes a 36 with three modifications:
1. The bell flare is cut to 8 1/2 inches (nominal).
2. The slide is .547 with a model 50 slide crook.
3. The slide tenon and receiver are Bach's bass size.

The valve and neckpipe on the 42B are identical to the 36B, and are undersized relative to the slide bore. If you want (or need) to "fix" the 42, you need to work on the valve. Opening the valve ports or using a Thayer or Hagemann valve are the usual approaches.

I have pretty sensitive ears, and I can't hear much difference in sound between the 42B and the 42BO. I can hear the difference between valve/no valve on the 36CO. It's subtle, but it's there.

In the situation you describe, I think I'd go for the conventional wrap rather than the open wrap.
User avatar
LeTromboniste
Posts: 1019
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:22 am
Location: Sion, CH

Re: Bach 42BO for a school band?

Post by LeTromboniste »

I got my own 42 (BO at the time) in grade 10. Nothing too bad happened to it. Of course I was serious about studying music and careful and it was my own instrument, so it might be very different when it's school-owned instruments that are handled by kids who don't care. Although in my school there were commonly more advanced instruments for the older kids, and they were treated with relative respect and care - after playing two or three years on a old beat up student instrument with a slide or valves that barely moves or sub-par keywork, you kind of want to enjoy the privilege of playing a nicer instrument that you know is much better and much more valuable and not ruin it by destroying the instruments. As long as the kids see the 42s as a privilege rather than an entitlement and there's a culture of care built around that, I think it can be fine.

Now my experience with switching to a 42 at that age is that it was really hard to fill and find my tone on it as a high schooler. It's quite the step up when you're not experienced and come from smaller, much brighter horns. I think there are other options that would be more appropriate/easier to adapt to for the kids.

I also think there's ways to spend money on a school music program other than getting the fanciest and best instruments that can have a bigger impact on the kids. Say you spend 2000 instead of 3000 on every instrument. You still get high quality high-end intermediate or low-end pro instruments, but you save thousands that you can spend on meaningful activities and projects (spending a week-end at a band camp, or going to a music festival or competition, or playing the end of the year concert in a nicer hall...)
Maximilien Brisson
www.maximilienbrisson.com
Lecturer for baroque trombone,
Hfk Bremen/University of the Arts Bremen
User avatar
Kingfan
Posts: 1132
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:32 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Bach 42BO for a school band?

Post by Kingfan »

To piggyback on LeTrombiste's comments, I got my King 4B the summer before my sophomore year and had no troubles making the switch from my student horn. I do agree that some kids might have problems, though, especially if they do not have a good private teacher or coach. I also agree that the school could get a good less expensive horn and use the money elsewhere, even more so if the horns will not be well cared for by the students.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
Greg Songer
King 606, King 3B-F: DE LT101/LTD/D3
King 4B-F: Bach 5G Megatone gold plated
King 2107 bass: DE MB109/MB J/J8 King
User avatar
BGuttman
Posts: 5891
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:19 am
Location: Cow Hampshire

Re: Bach 42BO for a school band?

Post by BGuttman »

I found a King 4B (as well as a number of other similar sized horns) is a lot easier to play than a Bach 42B.

The BD would do well to consider Yamaha 448 horns, which are a "sorta" stripped down 6xx horn.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
User avatar
LeTromboniste
Posts: 1019
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:22 am
Location: Sion, CH

Re: Bach 42BO for a school band?

Post by LeTromboniste »

Yes. If they want large bore, there's no inherent problem in that, especially if they are given to the older/more advanced kids, but there are many large bore horns that are easier to step up to than 42s.
Maximilien Brisson
www.maximilienbrisson.com
Lecturer for baroque trombone,
Hfk Bremen/University of the Arts Bremen
imsevimse
Posts: 1408
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:43 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Bach 42BO for a school band?

Post by imsevimse »

I think the tradition with school bands is fantastic. We don't have that as a tradition here. It really is a good way to promote windband instruments. I also think it is great the bandmaster wants the kids to have high quality instruments. It will be easier to learn.

Then there is the problem that the environment most likely will destroy those instruments fast. That's a problem.

Why not let the school buy cheap Chinese instruments to march with and give a small contribution (25%) to every trombone player kid to help finance their own pro horn (if they buy new)? In the long run it must be better. They shall not march with their own instruments.

- Kids get a pro instrument a little cheaper.
- Helps the musical instrument industry.
- Kids dont march with expensive instruments.
- Easier to learn on good pro instruments with healthy slides not destroyed by marching.
- Kids who quit can sell their instruments to younger kids and get some of the money back.
- The school gets cheap Chinese trombones to march with instead of expensive new Bach 42BO that will become destroyed fast.

/Tom
Last edited by imsevimse on Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:50 am, edited 7 times in total.
User avatar
JohnL
Posts: 1563
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:01 am
Contact:

Re: Bach 42BO for a school band?

Post by JohnL »

sirisobhakya wrote: Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:05 amMaybe I am too paranoid about the potential of damage, or not. What do you think?
I think you're too paranoid...

but you also have a point as far as there not being much (if any) difference between the B and the BO versions.
Post Reply

Return to “Instruments”