7th position lip slurs

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Davidus1
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7th position lip slurs

Post by Davidus1 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:05 am

Finding these difficult. Supplying more air but very uneven at times. How do you guys practice these. I start on Low E in seventh and work up several partials and back down, then move to 6th, then 5th position and so on.
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BGuttman
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Re: 7th position lip slurs

Post by BGuttman » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:18 am

you might try going down instead of up: start in 1st and work your way to 7th. I you have an F-attachment, do T3, t4, T5, and T6 (i you can reach it).

You don't have to start at the 2nd partial (low E in 7th); try starting on a diferent partial and going out. Example in 1st position: "tuning Bb", F below, D above, low Bb, F, "tuning Bb".
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Re: 7th position lip slurs

Post by Kbiggs » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:49 am

It will feel different due to the overall length of the instrument, the different proportion of cylindrical to conical tubing (slide vs. bell section), and the fact that the outer slide is a slightly larger diameter than the innter slide. Maintain your embouchure setting, keep your air flowing, and focus on the sound. Be patient.
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imsevimse
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Re: 7th position lip slurs

Post by imsevimse » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:24 am

I do the same. Go from 1st to 7th with different arpeggios in legato and with tongue. What I've added is to vary the notes in the pattern a bit to stay alert. Instead of Bb-f-bb-d1-f1-d1-bb-f-Bb on only first position I could do a variation and mix in the next position. The pattern could be Bb-f-a-c#1-f1-c#1-a-f-Bb. The variation helps me to stay focused. It gives a fresh touch to those old known studies. Why not? I have begun to do a lot of more stranger patterns based on how to move the slide in patterns instead of up and down in patterns on one (the same) position. I think this makes it more fun.

/Tom
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Wilktone
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Re: 7th position lip slurs

Post by Wilktone » Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:08 pm

Instead of starting on low E in 7th position you might also try putting the lip slur exercise “upside down” and start on the highest 7th position note and practice descending to low E and back up.

You might also try starting these exercises in 4th position and expand outwards to 3rd, then 5th, then 2nd, then 6th, then 1st then 7th. You will really feel how different it can be between 1st and 7th.

There may be some other things that you can try, but I’d want to watch you play first to make sure it was the right advice to give.

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Burgerbob
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Re: 7th position lip slurs

Post by Burgerbob » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:05 pm

No reason you only have to start on E! Play any slur in any position. I play most of my slurs (when I'm feeling it) all the way down to both valves and 7th. If you can focus and make great transitions from note to note in those long horn situations, it'll carry over to the open instrument.
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baileyman
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Re: 7th position lip slurs

Post by baileyman » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:34 pm

Slurs in 7 are like slurs in 6 but more so.

Low E ain't at all like, say, low A or G above it, so it's really unfair to try to start there. At least on a small horn.

The more I do these the more I think the whole point is to get the tongue coordinated in choosing the partial.
timothy42b
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Re: 7th position lip slurs

Post by timothy42b » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:20 am

If your arms are on the short side, that can affect the angle to the mouth. Or you could be not reaching far enough, and then trying to lip down. If you really struggle with 7th, you might consider just not doing it, or using T2 instead.
VJOFan
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Re: 7th position lip slurs

Post by VJOFan » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:20 pm

No one has talked about just working that range a bit before trying to initiate a slur pattern out there.

A glissando from the Bb out to A and back to Bb and so on, just slowly meandering ever further down the horn can help you figure out the similarities and differences between how that ( or any other partial) feels in different positions. Think of it as smearing Remington long tone studies without staying for an entire whole note on each pitch.

Once you can play an E better, starting a pattern on it will be easier.
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Re: 7th position lip slurs

Post by imsevimse » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:49 pm

As Burgerbob said you could expand the arpeggios into the valve register. I do that too. You could do them on both valves if you are on a double valve bass. I usually do them on the f-side down to Db. As anyone will notice they are not more difficult with more valves when you've learnt to do them. Yes there is more resistance but it is not incredible difficult. It is just techniques. Everything you practice is difficult until you master it.

/Tom
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Doug Elliott
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Re: 7th position lip slurs

Post by Doug Elliott » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:34 pm

Give me an idea of how much you expect to ever play any of those notes in 7th besides low E and. B.

That how much I would worry about it.

Oh yeah, I played a couple of E's in the staff on a gig yesterday, because they came after a low B. That's twice that I can remember from the past decade or so.
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Re: 7th position lip slurs

Post by imsevimse » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:05 pm

Even if we don't choose to play the higher partials out there in music it could be good practice. Same as everything else we practice but never play in public. I practice as high as I can but would not play in public, the same with the low register. I also practice to play as loud and as soft as I can but in public I do not go beyond my limits.

Hopefully it will make me a better player if I drill my technique this way. No need to worry though. Worries does not help playing at all, it just creates tension and anxiety.

Personally I found that I have been helped by thinking of my mouth corners as firm.

I focus on playing the slurs we discuss slow, and at the same time I look in a mirror to see I'm doing them efficient. I try to hold still, especially everything that is outside the mouthpiece.

I practice the slurs in a slow tempo and check the mouth corners do not jump. If I allow any jump when I play slow they will be there when I play fast too. That bad technique will hold me back later since wrong practice makes wrong permanent.

I can't tell you enough how true that is in my case. My life has been full of corrections of all the bad habits I learned my first four-five years without a proper guidance.

/Tom
"Do your best and then do better" ttf_watermailonman
Pre59
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Re: 7th position lip slurs

Post by Pre59 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:24 am

Doug Elliott wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:34 pm

Give me an idea of how much you expect to ever play any of those notes in 7th besides low E and. B.
I've have many instances in the restaurant gigs that I play, playing melodies"sotto", in tbn unfriendly keys, being either very high or low. Taking the lower option, playing with conventional long shifts is possible but not as musical as using alternate positions down the slide. "Sweet and Lovely" (Gus Arnheim, Harry Tobias and Charles N. Daniels) in the key of F being a good example.
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